During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
"We never learn why".
So have you played the game or seen a let's play?
jjj
Hey, if we are considering "Not Important" as an exception to the "No Player Character" rule, what other exceptions can there be ? Like say hypothetically, there's a video game where you play as a cop or vigilante protagonist, and a serial killer antagonist, but they player switches between the two over the course of the story ?
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
For it to be an exception, it has to be the canon thing that happens. Via cutscenes, onscreen but official backstory that leads up to it(basically, if it isn't onscreen enough, which can be the aftermath of the horrendous actions or seen directly, it's not good enough). It cannot be a player choice that makes them a CM. It has the be forced in-game in some way. And they need enough of a non-player given personality for it to work.
It's a bit more difficult to figure out for Roleplays, but it's no less a story like Fan Fictions are and can have one as long as it fits both the roleplay's story and the basic criteria of the trope.
edited 1st Jun '15 7:17:49 PM by Irene
Admittedly, no. I've read the Trivia page, though, that says there is basically no story, and I've seen the ending.
On that note, just by the ending alone and what he does, I'd say he is heinous enough, as narmy as it is.
Does the "They must have a personality" rule still stand even if they have plenty of screentime?
jjj
So, I'm reading Clive Barker's The Scarlet Gospels and I gotta say...the Cenobite Pinhead?
Getting to be a very, very clear keep in the novels. Even other cenobites and demons think he's a sadistic, maniacal, power hungry bastard
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Even other Cenobites? Well, I guess that answers the "moral agency" issue.
He quite literally annihilates the entire Order of the Gash.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Like, all the other Cenobites? 
Shall I add him (and Loki?) to your to-do list.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Regarding the whole Hatred thing, I believe his name is The Crusader. Or something. Haven't played the game myself, but I'm debating whether or not I will buy it and/or play it. I have, however, seen the ending. Its lovely, lovely, beautiful ending. And from what I've seen of the Let's Plays, I'm pretty sure his body count stacks up well past 500.
The only reason why I think he wouldn't qualify as a CM is because he seems very much like a Flat Character. He wants to kill everybody. Because reasons. And that's it.
edited 2nd Jun '15 12:04:30 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
I don't see how killing For the Evulz is a disqualifier.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Oh, it's not. But I believe being a Generic Doomsday Villain is.
A person named Dark Newt is doing a Let's Play of the game. He is on the last level. He should be done this weekend. After that, I will do a head count, pretty sure it's over 650 though.
jjj
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
At the least, it's easily dozens, probably hundrerds, maybe thousands. The only question is if he has enough of a personality.
BTW, does Byakura still count?
edited 2nd Jun '15 12:29:50 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Well, he does display a personality in the trailer, and makes it clear that he hates humanity. If that carries over to the game, he doesn't seem to be a GDV.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, that takes care of that probably. And he doesn't hurt kids or animals, but that's more a case of there being no option than of Even Evil Has Standards.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
This is true. Still, guy just seems bland though...
Anyway, I think we're supposed to wait two weeks after a movie/game comes out before we do a writeup and/or vote. But from what it looks like, we have a new candidate. But since this game was fully released yesterday, I'll wait before sharing anymore opinions. .....Other than the fact that the game's dialogue is astoundingly bad. Sonic '06 bad. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
And in the meantime, I'll look at some other possible candidates. I may rewatch Season 4 of 24 as well, get another look at Habib Marwan. Maybe he does qualify, despite him trying to help out one of his mooks.
edited 2nd Jun '15 12:54:56 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
It has been two weeks since The Witcher 3 had been released so the game is officially ready to be discussed on the forum.
There are two potential candidates that need discussion: Whoreson Jr, who is unique to The Witcher 3, and The King of the Wild Hunt, who's crimes are spread out throughout the books and games. I'll do an effort post on the former tomorrow but the latter will take a bit longer to get all the information compiled.
edited 2nd Jun '15 1:11:01 PM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
What about this dude (who someone else tried to add, besides Whoreson <whoreson???>?
- Complete Monster: The Quartermaster of the Nilfgaardian camp. He routinely executes PO Ws, and hangs those of his own soldiers who don't want to commit atrocities.
His father is also named Whoreson?
Umm... I'm not gonna spoil anything, but, having seen the ending myself, I can say that while we never see animals or children in the game, going by what happens at the end, it's pretty much a certainty that animals and children are killed offscreen.
As for the personality thing, well, we have let in characters that do not even speak before (Myers, the killer from Satans Little Helper, Kevin, ST Niklas, and some Godzilla monsters to name a few, actually, didn't Ambar nominate a Silent Antagonist a while back?).
jjj
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll probably play it this weekend. It IS possibly to have a GDV who speaks (hello Film!Malekith). ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
40230: SUPPOSED to be 2 weeks, but it seems like it's unofficially 2 (Immortan Joe and Ultron were discussed after 1 week or so).
edited 2nd Jun '15 1:21:42 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
@40232 The problem there is that the character mentioned is basically a living prop meant to embody the worst aspects of the Nilfgardian invaders.
@40233 The character's real name is Cyprian Willey but everyone calls him by his nickname, Whoreson Junior. Humorously enough, his father's nickname was Whoreson.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Has an Immortan Joe entry been submitted yet? I just watched Mad Max Fury Road and, yes it's a bit late, but he's a BIG ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
in my book.
Also, Grant Ward is a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
and the Hatred lead character will be a preliminary (will wait for a full writeup though).
I was thinking of Not Important and whether he would count. He's certainly heinous enough, but he's such a Flat Character.
Like, his only motivation is he hates everyone. We never learn why. His being a Misanthrope Supreme seems to be his only defining characteristic.