During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lizzid people!
That, and you can't really make out what's going on in the pic to be honest.
That's a good Bellatrix photo. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Speaking of pictures, I have a few snaps, of Bryagh
◊, Unalaq
◊, and Dag
◊ respectively that may be able to work as photos for Western Animation. Any of those seem good?
@Morgenthaler
People definitely aren't supposed to be using the term CM on any page other than possibly MEH. Go ahead and cut it.
"In distress", my ass.
ekimmak, the timestamp at the top of each post is a clickable link that will take anyone who follows it directly to the post in question
All your safe space are belong to Trump
Lizzid people!
@Scraggle: Unalaq looks the best out of the three photos. The other two don't really give that much information tbh.
Last call for Dr. Ver from Senki Zesshō Symphogear.
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Lizzid people!
for him.
Are there any good shots of Ozai roasting the Earth Kingdom? I was thinking that might work, with "TODAY THE WORLD SHALL END IN FIRE!" as the caption.
Doesn't even like this username
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We actually did find such a picture a while ago for the very same page and it seemed like we agreed that it was good. Then nothing more happened, apparently. Can't remember how many pages ago.
edited 26th Oct '14 8:28:33 PM by LordXavius
...that's the current page picture, dude.
I don't see it at Western Animation.
That's weird, I could have sworn it was there a few weeks ago.
Was this
◊ it?
I think so, yeah. I vote for it. As one of the best-known cartoon archvillains of recent memory, Ozai's a good "face" for the page.
edited 26th Oct '14 10:30:43 PM by HamburgerTime
My biggest issue with any picture of Ozai is that there is no single image of him that would visualise why he's a CM on it's own (which is why I cut the one for Image Links), so the caption will have to provide the appropriate context to make up for it.
I believe we had "Today, the world shall end in fire!"
We could aways add that he's trying to incinerate a country in the picture.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ozai: I'll assume this from Avatar Wiki is irrelevant?
Very Melon, what was the reason you gave all my posts a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
? You didn't give any justification for your view at all. Oh and Anbar, I'm sorry about what I said before.
edited 27th Oct '14 7:17:18 AM by RoxanneOfLoveAndHate
I'm me.
Lizzid people!
I don't really think that disqualifies Ozai. He cared for himself. He didn't care for his family members not even for Azula, his supposed favorite daughter. Just because he was a good political leader doesn't mean that he wasn't a monster. Therefore, I think that he should stay. Did you also finish up with the writeups that Scraggle mentioned, ACW?
What posts did you give, Roxanne?
edited 27th Oct '14 7:32:49 AM by AustinDR
Very Melon, you still haven't answered my question, Valter is clearly shown to be a sadistic monster even before he gets the cursed lance, it just makes him worse. By the way here's a character I think should be cut, Chalis from Golden Sun Dark Dawn. She does the same things as Blados but she has reasons for doing them while he does them For the Evulz, and the rules on this thread say that a secondary CM has to be one for distinct reasons.
One more thing I'd like to point out, one of the arguements for Turbo being on the never again list was because he has impared moral agency due to merging with the Cy-bug, but what about the moment when he tries to force Ralph to watch Vanellope get killed by the Cy-bugs? That's definitely way beyond run of the mill bad, and he doesn't have any reason to do that other than pure sadism, a trait he shows signs of before the Cy-bug eats him, so the impared moral agency arguement doesn't hold much water.
Austin Dr, I posted Kazushi Niida, Barrington, Valter and Riev, and Tubal-Cain, although I hate to admit it, the last one doesn't qualify.
Ozai definitely gets from me.
edited 27th Oct '14 8:11:50 AM by RoxanneOfLoveAndHate
I'm me.
Lizzid people!
Yeah, I agree that the last one doesn't count.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Austin, not yet. Tomorrow morning, along with submitting DND Monsters and the revised Rurouni Kenshin Monsters and cuttling Valdemar.
Please vote at https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1404661434032419800&page=3#61
.
The Umbridge story is free BTW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ozai has no redeeming qualities. The people love him insofar as it's an indoctrinated counterpart to Imperial Japan. Ozai is just very good at PR and portraying the Fire Nation as strong while he's in control. At the very least, he's built up a major cult of personality.
The reason he's comparing Zuko to Ozai is because Zuko is trying to negotiate return of lands Ozai stole, and has to deal with the political ramifications. Ozai didn't have this issue because his solution to separatism would have been to publicly execute anyone who even floated the idea by him.
Roxanne, did you get my PM? And also...
I admit I don't recall this on Valter much. What does he do before he gets the lance?
Regarding Chalis, does she do anything different from Blados and what are her reasons?
Turbo we're simply not revisiting unless new info is presented. That's not new.
Niida doesn't count. I gave my reasons why. In the movie, he does very little, same like in the novel. The manga? He's worse, but he always, always comes up short next to the far nastier bad guys. Mitsuko flat out rapes a boy who's injured and pimps her friends out. She also allowed the clients to rape one after she got cold feet on the first go around.
Looks good. Better than this
◊, which looks like something else.
BTW, with Rurouni I've added the live action entries; since it's just one work, personally I think it makes sense to keep it on both that and the Film page.
edited 26th Oct '14 6:28:11 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts