Could use renaming: Underground Monkey

Underground Monkey is a essentially a trope concerning monster palette swaps as a recurring mechanism to add new enemies without using up the games' designing budget, disk space, etc by creating entirely new enemy designs. The current name is quite vague and does little to allude to such a trope. I suggest Palette Swapped Mooks, but I'd like to hear yours.

edited 21st Dec '10 8:07:36 PM by joerc45

It's getting great usage:

Underground Monkey found in: 138 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 1,226 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

And it's not just a Palette Swap, which is something different.

Well, there are mechanical differences as well {ie stats/abilities/etc}, but it hardly matters in comparison to the ambiguity of the current trope name. Since it seems the one I suggested was a bit weak in hindsight, another renaming suggestion is imperative. Recycled Mooks, perhaps?

edited 21st Dec '10 8:22:24 PM by joerc45

I'm okay with Underground Monkey since I honestly can't think of a name that could get the intent across.

Actually, if you look at the page image it doesn't even require a palette swap. It can be a whole different model as long as it's the same family of enemies. It's more about recycling 'types' than models or pallet swaps.

I think it could use a rename. The title doesn't really refer to how it's about a mook/character which has had its premise recycled.

Yeah, nothing to indicate it's even a video game trope either.

@Joe: Underground Monkey is a Super-Trope of Palette Swap, so it's not the same. As long as you recycle something of a previous model (in a mook), it's an Underground Monkey.

Palette Swap is A WAY of reciclying models, but you can do other things. (like giving them wings or an extra eye).

Try playing Monster Rancher games and you'll see what it means. For each monster, you've 50 sub-breeds. They all look the same (even use the same model), but with slight differences. Beside colors, the sub-breeds might have antennas or wings or an extra eye.

I think that Underground Monkey is the name used by a very specific group. As the trope page says: Named for a Running Gag in RPG World, wherein the Underground Monkey is suspected of being attracted by Genre Savvy characters.

I believe we could use something more general.

edited 23rd Dec '10 11:03:36 AM by NerdAtComputer

Ehh... I'm not really convinced it needs a rename. It's not that this is the best name EVAR, but in context it's pretty indicative (it's a monkey but UNDERGROUND!) and I doubt you'll find much misuse of it. It's definitely snappier than "Palette Swapped Mook" and that name wouldn't give you much of a difference from Palette Swap.

@Cidolfas:

In which way an "underground monkey" is indicative?

If you can make some CLEAR relationship beetwen "a monkey but underground" and "the fact that a mooks model it's being recycled", let me know.

And the name Palette Swap Minnion should be out of the picture. This trope is more general than that.

edited 23rd Dec '10 11:17:53 AM by NerdAtComputer

They're a Recycled Mook.

@Aquillion: I would go to something a little different. Recycled Mook Model sounds better.

edited 23rd Dec '10 11:22:16 AM by NerdAtComputer

It's not about the model.

The trope is kind of confusing, I agree, and that should be fixed.

It seems to talk about "similar" mooks. But it talks about re-using models/sprites with slight differences.

Just look at the begging:

Sprites are expensive. Rendered 3D objects even moreso. As a result, there is a tendency to keep the number of distinct enemy types small.

The solution many games go for is to have a small set of monster types, but have them appear with slightly different graphics.

The image on the right doesn't help either. I believe we should create an "image change" topic as well.

We should use something like this: [1]◊

edited 23rd Dec '10 3:39:25 PM by NerdAtComputer

Mook Family Tree, Mook Relatives, Mook Evolutionary Line, Mook Evolutionary Branche, Mook Descendant, Mook Darwinist Studies, Physically Altered Mook... I'm just tossing out whatever comes to mind.

edited 23rd Dec '10 5:22:12 PM by DRCEQ

(I like Physically Altered Mooks :P )

Same Mold Different Mooks, Mooks Look Alike ?

edited 23rd Dec '10 5:34:10 PM by NerdAtComputer

I find it hard to imagine that the current title is attracting misuse. I mean, how many literal examples of monkeys that are underground could there be? And I'm not sure what else someone would Think It Means.

It's not a title I like, but it's got some very healthy stats and I doubt it's being used incorrectly, so as underwhelming as the current name is, I don't think we can justify a rename.

Redirects, on the other hand, are free. And we could sure use some of those.

Mook Genus?

Is Mook Clade too ... um, opaque? Clade is the right word. Or cladistics.

edited 24th Dec '10 1:05:40 AM by rodneyAnonymous

It also applies to recycled concepts for mooks too. The Dragon Quest games have umpteen different types of slimes but they all have different models. They're just all called slimes and they move and behave kind of the same. So in that case it's more the name being recycled.

That said, I don't see a reason to rename something with this trope's stats. 138 wiks and 1,226 brought to the wiki is proof that this is a very healthy trope.

Was suggesting a redirect.

@Shimaspawn:

This answer will be very negative. Sorry.

It also applies to recycled concepts for mooks too. The Dragon Quest games have umpteen different types of slimes but they all have different models. They're just all called slimes and they move and behave kind of the same. So in that case it's more the name being recycled.

The trope doesn't apply to creature recycling. If you take a closer look to the quotes posted 8x, you'll see the trope is in fact talking about Models or Sprites, not criature types.

Sprites are expensive. Rendered 3D objects even moreso. As a result, there is a tendency to keep the number of distinct enemy types small.

The solution many games go for is to have a small set of monster types, but have them appear with slightly different graphics.

Those phrases wouldn't make ANY sense unless the trope was talking about re-using sprites or models with small modifications, and nothing else.

But from time to time, the trope itself is very un-clear about this aspect. A lot of examples talk about "re-using mooks", instend of "re-using sprites/models".

And besides, the image on the right gives you the idea that it's the mook "idea" that is re-used. We should change that image from something more like this: [1]◊

That said, I don't see a reason to rename something with this trope's stats. 138 wiks and 1, 226 brought to the wiki is proof that this is a very healthy trope.

The stats are most often than not good indicator of "title health", but not always.

If a trope is used a lot, it'll be linked a lot even if the title is "bad".

Just to give a crazy example, if the trope My Kung-Fu Is Stronger Than Yours were called In Asia The Only Thing That Provides A Winner Is A Stronger Kung Fu, it would still be very linked to; don't you think?

And the last title is all but healthy.

small set of monster types

Is the important part. Adding a hat instead of just a recolor is the same thing. As programing became less restrictive, the ways to invoke Underground Monkey expanded.

The stats are a good way to show the title is used, but not necessarily healthy use, as misuse of the title to mean something else makes a very good case for a trope transplant. A number of common tropes had obscure names and were renamed do to low usage.

@ Deboss:

I completely agree with what you said.

But even if it's a hat instead of a recolor, the important part is they use the same model/sprite with some minor change.

If the monster type is the same, but their grafics are completely different and unrelated, they are NOT this trope.

If you have one slime that looks like this◊, and other one that looks like this◊, they do NOT play this trope. No matter if they are both slimes.

I disagree, the original cause for this was what resulted when somebody wanted a Palette Swap that wasn't quite the same and had different abilities. The minor changes were just a way to keep it different.

From the page.

Underground Monkeys are often Palette Swaps, meaning only the colors change, but don't have to be. As long as they're recycled versions of previous enemies, the changes between the different versions could be anything. You might have normal Goombas, winged Goombas, spiked Goombas... Even King Goomba could be considered a type of Underground Monkey.

edited 24th Dec '10 1:11:47 AM by Deboss