Retsupurae

There's a line from one of Shadow the Hedgehog's incredibly awfully cheesy songs; "one step forward and two steps back" that fits the series as a whole incredibly well.

Like. Adventure 1 and 2 had major problems. Sonic 06 didn't so much invent new problems as amplify existing ones.

edited 1st Aug '15 3:39:52 PM by unnoun

Hey, Shadow the Hedgehog's songs are made of win. Except Almost Dead.

That reminds me: I can't wait to hear slowbeef's reaction to "All Hail Shadow"

It had better be as great as their reaction to the rap in His World.

Didn't he already laugh at its title during Silver's end credits?

S3&K is what I meant. That one's great.

People tend to say that the Sonic Adventure games haven't aged well and arn't much better then 06, but I honestly don't get that. Yes, the fishing stages in the first game were awful {And the Amy ones were mediocre}, as were the treasure hunting stages in the 2nd game {I actually love the ones in the first SA game}, but everything else was great, especially the Sonic and Shadow stages. They are flawed games, but saying that they're "Like 06 but without the loading screens" is kind of an overreaction IMO.

On a note more directly related to Retsupure, I love how poor Slowbeef actually gets genuienly terrified at certain parts of 06. It's understandable, especially if it's happening while he's on his last life, but it's still funny seeing someone act like that towards a non-horror game. I think I mainly find it funny since I'm not use to seeing him like that, with usually the most negative emotion coming from him being tired, annoyed or confused at something {There was a old Retsupurae video involving a moronic asshole L Per who insulted the game he was playing and the fans, and Slowbeef actually got really, really pissed off while watching the video, which took me by surprise. I wish I could remember the name of it}.

edited 1st Aug '15 9:13:11 PM by marston

Honestly, the only time like that I can recall off the top of my head is when slowbeef angrily corrected the guy who got the creator of Tetris wrong, and then immediately backpedaled on that anger out of embarrassment.

Also, keeping it brief since it's off-topic—S3&K's levels are too long, sprawling, and at times confusing to be fun to me, and Sonic Adventure isn't that well designed all things considered, but in comparison to '06, it's like the difference between Sonic 2 and one of those crappy Sonic fangames Lowtax used to make fun of on his Gaming Garbage series.

edited 1st Aug '15 11:45:15 PM by Odd1

The Adventure games are... of their time. Within the context of their release, no one really knew how a 3D platformer should work at all. So it certainly isn't fair to blame them for their shortcomings.

But I really do think they do share all of those shortcomings with Sonic 06. Sonic himself is nearly impossible to control in all 3 games, the camera is often put in locations that make it difficult to see what you're doing, the levels aren't really designed to actually serve Sonic's speed well at all, the story is nonsensical at best (except Gamma. Gamma's rad.)

But a lot of these issues were also issues in many of the games' contemporaries. I think, when you get down to it, Sonic 06's biggest problem is that while the industry and genre evolved, it remained stagnant.

Gamma's is kinda nonsensical too, to be honest.

I agree it has those sane problems (keep in mind, I first really played through it like a year or so ago, so no nostalgia here), but it's not quite to the same degree. Though I will say, it's probably actually easier to break Adventure than 06 if you're really trying.

And as for the "early 3-D platformer" argument, explain then why Mario got it mostly right the first time.

edited 1st Aug '15 11:53:24 PM by Odd1

I... don't really like Mario 64, so I don't actually have an explanation for that

And yeah, Gamma's story is nonsensical. It still made child-me cry.

Fair enough there. (I'm not the biggest fan of it either, but I acknowledge that it at least got enough right to set the standard for 3-D platforming.)

And I first had exposure to Gamma's story as a young adult, so...eh, I guess it might have more impact as a kid who doesn't notice glaring plot holes and nonsensical moments.

Maybe I'm just blinded by nostalgia or something, seeing as how I did grow up with those two games. Anyway, I found the Retsupurae video I was talking about earlier where Slowbeef got pissed. It's the "Tower Of Horrible Voices" riff, a pretty damn old video of theirs. I can't link to it right now since I'm not using a computer for internet at the moment, but I'm sure most of you have seen it.

I remember that one. Man he got so mad in that one.

Granted, Lijik was being a MASSIVE dickhead about it in that video.

Sonic versus the Egg Viper Wyvern.

They really went out of their way to make Egg Wyvern the most miserable, unfun and flatout broken boss fight in the game, huh?

That's saying something.

edited 4th Aug '15 8:04:35 AM by unnoun

I get that Wyvern is the last boss of Sonic's story but aren't bosses meant to be fun too? As in, tough, challenging, epic and not filled with moments where the game flatout says "Fuck you, it didn't count"

Egg Wyvern speedrun.

If Slowbeef had gotten the gems this game would be even more of a joke.

"Sega is like a dumb-ass who wanted to build a birdhouse, but sawed off a finger instead due to bumbling incompetence. Konami is a bizarre masochist who suddenly decided he hated birdhouses, and intentionally sawed off all his limbs for apparently no reason at all. And if you're wondering how he sawed off the last arm, he outsourced that task to some low-budget studio in eastern Europe."

Sometimes, You Tube comments get it.

If I may say something, there's still a fair amount of small but VERY important things that the Adventure games still have over 06, some of which are very good reasons why there's still a fair amount of love for the Adventure games and why there is barely any for 06.

• Loading times were fair
• Spin Dash actually worked as it did in the classic games,
• While SA 2 nerfed the radar by having it detect only one emerald at a time, it still beats having NO radar whatsoever regarding a level in 06 where you had to look for 3 Keys,
• It had an Autosave not just for levels but getting important stuff in the hubworlds in SA 1 such as upgrades
• You could still jump into enemies to kill them like in the Classic games (Enemies also had no health bar and were almost always killed with just one hit)
• Hubworlds in SA 1 were much Smaller and the Human NPC's were only extra dialogue you could listen to for fun or they occasionally pointed where to go instead of side missions (SADX had a Mission Mode, but it was entirely optional. No missions were mandatory to progress through the game unlike in 06)
• Besides maybe a few Knuckles and/or Rouge levels in SA 2 no levels took more then 10 Minutes to complete. (This isn't counting if you died multiple times on a level as in you actually finish the time you finish the level is more then 10 minutes)

I could probably go on and on, but I'd eventually hit the more opinionated stuff. But some of these differences, even if they sound small. All together they're just part of why Adventure is held much higher in regards then 06 is. Maybe 06 just had alot of the problems the Adventure games had, just multiplied even further. There's still simple things the Adventure games got right that the people developing 06 either forgot about, or somehow didn't have the time to program them correctly. This isn't quite as simple as "Adventure got a good reception when it was out only because there was no clear indicator of what a 3D Platformer should be yet"

I think I can sum up why people liked the two Adventure games in one word:

Chao.

Yeah pretty much.

I got too attached to my Chao at times. And I never had the heart to hit one. Even when I decided to try to have a Chao just to abuse it. I quickly felt bad and just did the Say Goodbye (AKA Delete) function of the GBA Transporter. It kinda tells how squeamish I am that I feel just as bad abusing a virtual pet almost as much as a real one but it makes me feel good, like I have a heart.

It also tells you that Sega at the very least programmed that quite well enough and gave more reason to replay the games more then most Sonic games do. I swear if they made a modern Chao Garden even at it's own thing as an eShop/Downloadable game it'd make quite alot of Money. I think relatively cheap DLC would also be useful for it too.

(Sorry that I dragged this a bit off-topic, I am enjoying the 06 playthrough Slowbeef is doing. Stuff like the dying PS 3 and other things going on with the playthrough just serve to make this even more hilarious. I can't wait til' they get to the Final Story)