new trope needs a rename: The Alexander

It fails the One Mario Limit. On the other hand, the trope basically boils down to "someone like Alexander the Great". I'm torn.

Dunno, Alexander the Great is the sole reason why the name is known in the western world, and a google search for Alexander brings up results related to him, so it's safe the assume that most people would think of him when reading the title.

Dammit, we said this repeatedly in the YKTTW, and whoever launched it refused to listen? Gah.

Let's throw up a crowner, get a consensus on something like Teen Conqueror, and hopefully we can get this dealt with by the end of the week.

edited 18th Dec '10 1:20:11 PM by troacctid

Teen Conqueror is good for me.

Teen Conqueror, Teenage Conqueror—either one is fine by me.

Why do we have a One Mario Limit but Allow Snow Clones, huh?

edited 18th Dec '10 5:40:10 PM by americanbadass

Everythings Worse With Snowclones has the guidelines for snowclones. But that's a separate issue.

edited 18th Dec '10 5:43:12 PM by troacctid

and yet dozens exist and I've seen recent tropes which had original names renamed into snowclones via crowners.

side note: I just don't like Teen Conqueror, because the trope doesn't need to be teenage; just young and idealistic. I rather like the sound of Young Conqueror thou.

Also I have a feeling most people would more likely associate Teen Conqueror with Teens Are Monsters

edited 19th Dec '10 12:46:25 AM by americanbadass

Snowclones are tolerated when they provide additional information about the trope, namely implying that's it's part of a family of tropes.

The X is almost always a bad name for a trope, and One Mario Limit is a large part of the reason for that. Alexander as a name in the western world certainly originates with The Great, and he's certainly the Most Triumphant Example thereof, but he's hardly the only one. It could very easily be mistaken for "any character called Alexander" by people who don't bother reading the trope before adding it to example lists (and yes, that happens. GIFT at work, etc.)

The site is not written for GIFT-ed people. We must always assume a certain minimum of common sense from the editors if we want to function in any meaningful way.

Seriously, what are the chances that someone will see the title, and think of anything else than "Somone who is like Alexander the Great?"

edited 19th Dec '10 7:01:17 AM by EternalSeptember

Better than you think. And even if they do correctly identify Alexander the Great they still might not get it. Who else is like Alexander? I would be inclined to say Napoleon, Genghis Khan, etc. because his most notable trait is that he conquered a huge empire. That would be incorrect.

Go ahead and put up a crowner if you like.

Crowner here.

And even if they do correctly identify Alexander the Great they still might not get it. Who else is like Alexander? I would be inclined to say Napoleon, Genghis Khan, etc. because his most notable trait is that he conquered a huge empire. That would be incorrect.

This.

If anything, this is a more important reason for a name change than anything involving the One Mario Limit. Even when a character/person-named trope has an incredibly obvious Trope Namer, the name still gives no indication about what characteristic the trope is trying to emphasize (and the people who do get tropes named after them are usually known and recognized for several different things).

We can make a trope about people who are militaristic failures who miraculously win entire wars thanks to a very small handful of fluke victories, call it The George Washington and see just how many people make the connection between George Washington and his military record during The American Revolution while guessing the trope from the title given.

edited 19th Dec '10 12:05:33 PM by SeanMurrayI

Bored, came up with some ideas:

• Teen Shihuangdi (off of Qin Shihuangdi, the first man to unify China)
• Conquest Before College (for Added Alliterative Appeal)
• Emperor Adolescent (noun-adjective inversion sounds appropriately archaic for this trope)

Dislike Emperor Adolescent, implies Child King or whatever that trope is, not a conqueror.

I also don't have any familiarity with the name "Shihuangdi" and would suffer from many of the same problems which plague The Alexander, anyway.

Conquest Before College sounds epic, also Napoleon was one of our first real examples when creating this idea, even before Alexander

What? No, Alexander came before Napoleon!

edited 19th Dec '10 7:08:18 PM by SeanMurrayI

Yes, in time-line of history but not in discussion on creating this trope.

That doesn't make sense with the trope if it has to do with age.

Anyhow, I'm loving Conquest Before College.

edited 19th Dec '10 7:09:52 PM by helterskelter

That's why I don't like the Teenage Conqueror name, The trope is used to mean teen to young adult as the current trope namer is Alexander the Great who lead is conquest between his teens and young 20's.

edited 19th Dec '10 7:12:50 PM by americanbadass

Napoleon was thirty-five (...ish) when he conquered Europe. I'm saying I'm sort of confused about why you would have considered him. Joining the army as a teenager is nothing notable. By the time he was in 13 Vendemiaire, he was in his late twenties (27 or 28 I believe). Is that really young enough?

Yes, I say teens to early 30's seems like the Idealistic Youth range. As long as they had the intent at a young age.

The youth back then tended to be really passionate about Republican and Enlightenment and Liberalism ideals. "We will make the Light of Truth and Reason Shine all over the world, whether it likes it or not". Napoleon was 24 at the Siege of Toulon, but his exploits already started in Corsica, when he got from Second Lieutenant to Lieutenant Coronel in less than three years.