improve (page action crowner): Karma Houdini

"She is not a Karma Houdini because she is not a villain. Beyond it, "plenty heinous" is subjective." - Mag Bas

Only because morality is... technically subjective. This does not mean we treat all moral perspectives as equal, otherwise Evil Tropes would by their very nature lose their meaning. What Haruhi did was indefensible; she falsely incriminated (deceptive) someone of sexual harassment (hypocritical; she's the one who sexually harasses Mikuru) and used this for a computer. (Selfish; she used this for material gains, not some "greater good.") She even threatened to falsely accuse the entire classroom of gang-rape if they testified as witnesses. Logic dictates that should be a Moral Event Horizon.

edited 2nd Jul '11 7:00:36 AM by neoYTPism

Moral Event Horizon IS YMMV

Of course it is, but my point remains.

Bumping after a dozen days because this thread seems to have fallen behind.

Another problem is that there's minor misuse of it on Darth Wiki. They're describing D.W., who doesn't fit this trope since she's not a villain, as one quite often on that show's Wall Banger page.

edited 20th Jul '11 2:36:54 PM by MadMan400096

Some people were actully thinking about changing this name to D.W from Arthur with very good reasons. Check out D.W's Wall bangers. No, her character has her folder due to the mass cramium damage she did.

edited 5th Sep '11 8:19:17 AM by Marioking98341

That's a "no". A shitty character named trope is in no way an improvement.

Of course, I suggested a YMMV trope about being unpunished for what people think is wrong at YKTTW, but it got discarded for not being "different enough" from Karma Houdini.

Doesn't Moral Dissonance kind of cover that?

Since we're trying to improve the article...

Should I put on the article that justifications fall under "Get Out of Jail Free" Card?

edited 29th Sep '11 6:48:30 AM by Ramidel

I say go for it. Let Wiki Magic sort out what needs work or doesn't fit. I myself put up Fiction Isn't Fair a while back.

Do you think a Jerkass Houdini (sub)trope would fly? Inspired just now by tonight's Family Guy. Damn Peter.

I'm not sure if we want to make one given the troubles of this trope. I do think some examples of that might go under the existing Idiot Houdini, though.

What on earth is this part of the description trying to say?

Masked Evil and Flaws due to Perspective - On a metaphysical note, the subject victim at large may have had something of various evil doings and skeletons in their closets from times past and still possibly existing that will eventually lead karma to long fulfill karmic retributive debts, through using said villain/antagonist to punish the victim. IE, not everyone is innocent and have their fair share of evil doings and dark sides as well. Case in point: Neo Arcadia and possibly every apocalyptic genre of entertainment.

I've read it multiple times and I don't understand it.

That sort of sounds like Kick The Son Of A Bitch.

Well it's a bad description then. Could someone please clear it up to be legible? I'd do it myself but I don't know what they're trying to say.

No. Moral Dissonance is when noone notices the hero is a hypocrite.

So what would cover examples of averted karmic comeuppance for heroic characters?

Karma Houdini covers heroes as well.

The description not mentions heroes any time. In either case, the only motive it received a page is because "villains are punished"- the thing it averts- is an Omnipresent Trope. "Heroes are not punished" not only is not a trope, but it is not notable- "heroes are punished" is not sufficient common to their aversion be worthy of mention.

edited 22nd Nov '11 3:56:02 PM by MagBas

Then maybe the definition should be edited. Heroes can end up getting away with Kick the Dog moments, even though they shouldn't by all rights.

By the way, the link on my watchlist goes to the Karma Houdini Warranty Discussion page instead.

edited 22nd Nov '11 4:02:42 PM by azul120

I do not think that trope means what you think it means.

Kick the Dog is moment used by the author to show that a character is evil. Kick the Dog is impossible to a character that is not canonically evil.

Then what's it called when a hero does something like that?

"The audience not approved the act of the character", probably. If it is noted in-universe, What the Hell, Hero?.

But usually this trope isn't pointed out in-universe (such as Eragon in the Inheritance Cycle).