Dragon Age

I tried. Honestly.

But Inquisition is fucking DULL. Dull combat, even duller bosses, dull side quests. There's a lot of things you can be in a videogame, but fucking DULL is the worst. I've seriously, in 40 years of gaming have never been so bored playing a game.

^Well, congrats for that That is pretty good achievement for 40 years :P I mean, you started like when DOS and Atari games were a thing, right?

Remember guys: a game populated with characters of a variety of races and orientations is pandering to the "SJW" crowd. But a game exclusively populated by white heterosexuals is not pandering to anyone at all.

I find that two best characters in the game are a gay man of Middle Eastern descent (or the fantasy equivalent) and a black woman, so I guess I must be one of those evil SJ Ws that Bioware made their game to appeal to. Or, you know, maybe it's just a game that reflects the fact that it was made in the 21st century and not a weapon in some imaginary war to brainwash people.

edited 29th Jan '15 12:25:43 AM by Millardkillmoore

Since we somehow landed on this subject there is something I've wondered. Where are Thedas's African analogues originally from? None of the known lands seem to be it as they are all some analogue to medieval European countries. The farthest would be Tevinter but even that is essentially Byzantium or something. So where is Africa?

I recall hearing something about island chains beyond wherever but I can't seem to find mention of them anymore.

The Qunari function as Moors, don't they? Kinda?

Conception is sin Birth is pain Life is toil Death is inevitable

I imagine their lineages probably trace back to the places they would logically trace back to. Places near the coast, and deserts. So, Rivain, the Western Approach, Antiva, places like that.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Among other influences, yes.

The Western Approach wasn't always the desert it is today, as I understand it. It became that way after the First Blight.

Par Vollen has some makings of an Africa analogue since it's right across the sea from Rivain and is supposedly where Thedas's humans originally came from but it has been under Qunari rule for centuries. Also, it would take quite some time for humans to turn white if Par Vollen's inhabitants were originally black before moving south. It also leaves the question of where do modern black Thedosians trace their lineage to beyond the last 5 generations or so.

Rivain and the islands, then, I imagine.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Rivain seems to be a Spain analogue so I doubt it. It would make sense if they simply hadn't left Par Vollen until the Qunari arrived and then moved south but there is no mention of this anywhere. As for the islands, I'm trying to find something about them because they would have to have left there relatively recently which would mean there must be some civilization there worth noting.

Would they? There's no way they could have been on mainland Thedas for centuries?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

A couple centuries maybe but no more than that. If Vivienne comes from an interracial relationship then it's no more than the first generation of such a relationship as her features are distinctly African. Since the previous games didn't have anyone with African features at all I assume that's been retconned but even in Inquisition there are far too few black people to maintain racial features that distinct over several generations unless they very specifically try to only marry other black people, which seems unlikely because, unlike say modern America where interracial relationships were taboo until a few decades ago, Thedas apparently has no prejudice to prevent interracial marriage.

I'm staying the hell away from this conversation because it's only going to end badly but why do people that aren't white need an excuse to explain why they are in the game?

Why?

A better question would be, why do only white people's myriad cultures deserve in game representation? We have almost all of Europe covered and then there's some far away Muslim influences across the sea and that's it. Then after two games Bioware remembered that black people exist and just tossed them in for good measure without any creative thought put into it as if they only exist in white societies. It's lazy world building. Why is it that every medieval fantasy world seems to think that only Europe was interesting back in the day of swords and shields?

Viv mentions in a banter with Cassandra (I think) that her parents were Rivaini traders living in Wycome.

Yes, her heritage is listed as Rivaini on the wiki but then the typical Rivaini on that same wiki is represented by Isabela and Duncan.

Duncan's half-Rivaini, half-Ferelden, IIRC. Word of God is that Rivain is the setting's Africa equivalent.

@Millardkillmore

Don't put words in my mouth. As I pointed out "diversity" is fine. Look at Fallout 3 or New Vegas. Multiple races, genders, even sexualities, and it's done very well, because the point of those games WASN'T diversity. It was just to make a good game. I dislike games when diversity itself is a main goal, a forced goal, a quota you have to meet of how many minorities to pander to. I have nothing against these groups appearing in games, far from it, but I prefer them being shown tastefully and naturally, not forced in in order to "fill a diversity quota". Remember all the folks on Bioware Social Network tallying up the exact numbers and calculations for how many gay, straight, or bi characters should appear in Bioware games? That's not natural. That's cold calculation for the sole purpose of pandering.

The main question every developer should ask when thinking about including diverse characters is Why are we including these characters and making them different?

If the answer is "So we can be diverse/inclusive/progressive/appeal to certain gamers", then no, it's a bad idea. If the answer is "So we can have a wide range of interesting characters each with their own personality to interact with", then it's a great idea. Bioware did the latter entirely, and their various SJW-supportive statements and the damning posts about their love for Sarkeesian proved that entitlement, not equality, was all they were after, and to me and many other Origins fans I've spoken to, this watered down and weakened the cast of characters considerably. Diversity, difference, inclusion, or progressive ideas in a game are NOT immediately necessary, nor required, nor should they be. We don't NEED to have these things in a game if they're not needed and/or they don't fit in well to the plot and overall setting. It's like the people who shouted for Dwarf romances. Did they want them? Sure. Did Bioware have good Dwarf romances in mind? Not necessarily, and if they didn't have the ideas in mind, then they didn't need to add any just to pander to one group of their vast fanbase. The resources spent rigging up Dwarf animations and recording Dwarf romance dialogue could be spent elsewhere. When you draw resources for the sole purpose of pandering, every other facet of game development suffers. If they had a great idea for an interesting Dwarf character with their own backstory and personality and impact with the side dish of romance? I'd be all for adding them in. That'd be awesome! But Bioware doesn't think that way, not with a rabid fanbase that's becoming more and more saturated with SJ Ws day by day. Before, the people demanding romance options for the Illusive Man or Hawke's brother/sister were seen as insane. Now, they're becoming normal.

If you think Bioware being "quotafiably diverse" is a good or progressive thing, then I think you're mistaken. Bioware does it for the money. EA runs them with a whip and lash, and EA's investors and shareholders and chairmen couldn't give two shits about you, me, or any minority or group. They care about pocketing as much money as possible, and in their minds, anyone who vehemently argues for inclusion at all costs in games and will buy those games regardless of quality are just Useful Idiots that they can milk for more cash. Bioware's not championing any kind of actual social progress, they're championing the will of their publishing overlords. When the SJW movement dies out, another movement will take its place, and you can bet your ass EA and other big-name publishers will be pandering as much as possible to them too.

You can't please everyone.

edited 29th Jan '15 4:27:03 AM by Jenaiqueserasera

"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion."

Is it really? I've never heard mention of that.

Would you please stop regurgitating /v/'s hivemind opinions? It's pretty clear that that's all your going off of and haven't actually played Inquisition.

edited 29th Jan '15 4:43:03 AM by McSomeguy

Yeah, that's the impression I'm getting too.

Oh really when?

/v/'s hivemind opinions?

No, I did indeed play Inquisition, before I got a refund.

"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion."

I'll note, Antiva is essentially Venice (in initial concept, at least), yet Antivans can be seen sprouting Spanish.

It wouldn't be too surprising if Rivain ended up as Spain in concept, yet were all some other nationality. Plus, apparently in the previous games they had difficulty rendering people (something to do with the skin colour and lighting or something?), so they might pull something like the Qunari "redesign".

For no more then an hour or two then. Otherwise you would never have made the claim that Dorian's character is all about how gay he is, which was one of the more popular snark bait talking points on /v/ in all the circlejerks leading up to the release of Inquisition.

Rivain is probably the Spain/Portugal/Morocco region.

...But he is Fantasy Freddy Mercury, I don't think anyone can deny this.

Dressed to Kill.

There is more to a man than his mustache.