Would that it were so simple.
Poisoning the Progenitor on Manaan is deemed bad because not only are you poisoning the ocean, you spoiled a huge lode of kolto as well. Thousands of soldiers will die because medical supplies are short, and Manaan will likely go into an economic depression since that's their only export.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
That all you got?
Though ME 3 also showed the downsides to it, even if you might see Renegade as a Character Derailment thing, considering that a Renegade Shepard actually actively impedes the war effort.
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Would that it were so simple.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I feel like this shouldn't need to be said, but alienating, insulting, humiliating, and then directly undermining your allies in the middle of wartime is the definition of Stupid Evil. Renegade Shepard does this all the time, across all three games. It's just that in ME 3, his brand of dickery gets nothing constructive done because he's not bullying other characters from a position of strength. He needs them just as much, if not more than they need him, and he still acts like a despicable cunt around them.
edited 31st Oct '14 7:26:18 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
That all you got?
Indeed. KOTOR II actually did the Light Side/Dark Side thing the best, I think, because Kreia encouraged you being manipulative and subtle with all of your stuff having a purpose, rather than For the Evulz.
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Sharknado Warning
Except that, again, you have no way to know this will happen reliably.
If you did this in full knowledge of the consequences, I'd agree it is. However when all the words you have are the self-admitted unproven feelings of a woman who 10 minutes ago was hallucinating... And peoples are dying right now?
edited 31st Oct '14 7:34:27 PM by CobraPrime
Uniocular
Dark Side vs. Light Side has little to do with intent. It's all about results. Yeah, it's kinda dumb, but that's Star Wars.
"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Would that it were so simple.
People exaggerate the nuance of KOTORII. When people unwrap their lips from around Chris Avellone's cock long enough to look at the story more objectively, they'd find the Dark Side Exile to be quite transparently and unequivocally despicable, just not outright Axe-Crazy. The Dark Side Exile still uses evil methods, with evil intentions, for evil ends. They just took out the cackling and mustache twirling.
Perpetually Confused
Kreia ... subtle? No. For one, the game hamstrings you in keeping her around, despite the fact that she's obviously up to no good and any sane light-side Jedi would've ditched her in 10 seconds flat.
This is the lady that bitches no matter what you do? Helped a guy? Its your fault he'll get mugged. Told him to go fuck himself? Well now he's gonna be a mugger.
Kreia's entire message is to isolate yourself and stay the fuck away from everyone. Don't help. Don't be seen. Don't interact. Kreia's entire philosophy is one of avoidance because you don't know the consequences of what you do.
edited 31st Oct '14 9:13:24 PM by Ghilz
That all you got?
Implying that I would fellatio someone just because I said I like the way they portrayed morality was entirely uncalled for, dude.
edited 31st Oct '14 9:13:22 PM by theLibrarian
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Uniocular
Why would a Dark Side character not be evil?
"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Hey Zephyr, no need to be rude, please. Just because you hate Avellone (and Gaider, and Whedon...and probably a bunch of other writers) doesn't mean we all do.
Uniocular
And I mean, Kotor I and II's Dark/Light Side system is nothing compared to The Old Republic.
That shit is weird.
"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Superfan
Like the fact that you can get LS/DS points even as a non-Force user? Corruption for everyone!
edited 1st Nov '14 4:59:33 AM by MangaManiac
It's very realistic in that regard.
Left Eye
Kreia is a doting teacher.
She criticizes your actions because she wants you to reflect on them(i.e. consider the wider, indirect implications of your choices beyond "choose A -> X happens vs. choose B -> Y happens").
She's so insistent on never shutting up around the Exile because she's trying not to make the same mistakes she did with her last two students.
I wouldn't call her subtle either(she does literally tell you things to your face, after all), but there is a level of nuance there.
edited 1st Nov '14 12:02:09 PM by JotunofBoredom
Umbran Climax◊
Would that it were so simple.
What makes her just an ornery bitch is that literally everything you do is worthy of rebuke. And when she wants to criticize you, you can forget about trying to argue back with her, because it's lecture time with Chris Avellone's self-insert
edited 1st Nov '14 4:20:16 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Perpetually Confused
Also the whole Obviously Evil thing. Seriously, I still don't know how her being the Big Bad is a spoiler. The game sort of flat out tells you on the first planet.
I might add Chris Avellone is a good friend of mine.
Would that it were so simple.
I still think his writing tends to be overrated.
Left Eye
Not that surprising in a medium where the ratio of actually decent writing to lazy pandering is so low.
Pretentious Scholar of English
I'm not sure how I feel about Gaider, like I respect and enjoy his writing to a degree. But I've heard that he's apparently said some pretty fucked up shit about dwarves, and he can be sometimes a bit rude to fans. Then again fans can be A LOT rude to the writers, so yeah.
He can be a majorly passive aggressive ass. Maybe not without reason, but still. If you're gonna act like that, it's probably best to just not interact with fans.
edited 2nd Nov '14 10:38:00 AM by Chrisham2
It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean and strong.
Perpetually Confused
Which one was it that got butthurt over the Bioware cliche chart?
What kinda stuff about dwarves?
edited 2nd Nov '14 10:41:20 AM by Ghilz
To resume a conversation I'm bummed I missed, Paragon and Renegade actually works out okay in the broad strokes. Paragons are rule followers who're concerned with the cost their actions have on innocents, Paragons are mavericks who quite simply don't give a damn, and are oriented to think of themselves and their mission first. The problem arises in that ME 1 and especially 2 forced you to go all or nothing. You couldn't just be anti-bureaucracy, if you wanted to be effective you also had to be a racist sociopath.