Helldivers 2

The developers have said they're never going to add PVP, right? So there's no chance of a For Honor-style war system where there are different factions fighting each other, which means we'll never be able to play as the Automatons or Terminids, right?

I mean, no, but I'm not sure where that thought came from.

Despite intense effort from various helldivers, it seems we've lost Malevelon Creek.

Came across a video cataloging all the various short videos that are viewable in the game.

I do think some nuance is lost by just blanket saying that the Automatons and Bugs are innocent and/or "good guys." My perspective based on what I've seen and heard is essentially that they are ruthless, horrifying forces of destruction, and that they do pose a threat to innocent people... but of course, only because they've been pushed to such extremes by Super Earth's unyieldingly brutal, outright genocidal response to their totally justified and sympathetic uprisings.

The Automatons in particular give me the vibe of having once been truly innocent and benevolent AIs, considered by their cyborg creators as the precious mechanical children of humanity, traumatized by the cruelty of the world they exist in and forced to harden themselves into ruthless killbots if they're to have any chance of surviving and freeing their beloved masters. They're sympathetic, they're A Lighter Shade of Grey than Super Earth (who would be outright Black if they weren't technically protecting their people at this point), but by the time the story picks up they've sadly pushed past the point of being heroic.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Feb 28th 2024 at 10:35:07 AM

Well, the Terminids seem to just be insects. Whether they have some kind of hive mind or not, that doesn't necessarily mean they're sapient. More relevant here is that, as I've heard people suggest, Super Earth appears to be seeding Terminids onto planets, waiting a few months, and then sending in the Helldivers to liberate all that bug fuel.

So if the bugs are threatening human civilians, it's not really the animals' fault per se.

Writing On Games put up their take on the Helldivers 2 and how similar it is to Starship Troopers. Not much particularly deeper insight than what was incredibly obvious or had already been stated online.

And on another, more spoiler-y note: some leaked videos have been cropping up online of a Helldiver mech in action. It's arsenal can be customized too, with reports of it carrying a rocket launcher alongside the MG 43 for example. Oh, and some folks have even reported seeing friendly SEAF infantry airdropped so there's a future possibility we might be able to summon NPC backup in the future.

Two things, I've seen it said that the Automatons are machines who were built by the Cyborgs multiple times on this site, but I've looked and I can't find a source for that. There's obviously a connection between the two, since they use the same flag, and that might be the nature of that relationship, but they're intentionally being vague about it, and it's possible that the Automatons are the decedents of the Cyborgs, who just took the cyberization further. We can't even say for certain if they are modified humans or machines.

Second, I've seen lore that Heelidvers barely get any training and are sent in with the expectation that they will die. Fair enough, but if the elite guys don't get much training, then what kind of training do the regular rank and file army people who aren't Helldivers get? What makes the Helldivers special when compared to the regular joes who sign up?

It is mentioned in in-game propaganda that the cyborgs have been enslaved in mines on their own world.

Yes, this is true, but that doesn't explain where the Automatons came from. If every Cyborg was captured, then explaining how they created the Automatons runs into the same problem as saying that the Automatons are the decedents of the original Cyborgs, as there would be no free Cyborgs to do either. Either way, there must have been a handful of free Cyborgs, or possibly a third scenario that I can't presently think of.

Edited by WillKeaton on Feb 29th 2024 at 11:57:18 AM

A friend of mine is convinced the Automatons where specifically created by Super Earth as an opponent for the Helldivers to fight.

My pet theory at the moment is that, assuming our current undersanding of their backstory as creations of the cyborgs is accurate, that after the cyborgs' defeat they were placed in storage or otherwise left to rot.

Then along comes some yet-unseen underground Dissident organization who activates them specifically so they can fight Super Earth — possibly the same group implied to be sabotaging bug farms and freeing them. Heck, maybe they're in cahoots with Illuminate Genocide Survivors.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Feb 29th 2024 at 1:28:21 AM

Nothing is explicitly stated, and do take note it's a whole century since the first game. A LOT could happen in a hundred years, and indeed a lot of the leaps forward in FTL tech in-universe happened because of the defeat of the bugs and the resources they eventually supplied.

There's no direct link between the Cyborgs and the Automatons, true, but it would be remiss to not correlate just where the new fronts are compared to where the Cyborg and bug homeworlds were in the first game.

This is the reason why a lot of veterans of the first game are nervous about how there's a LOT of un-labelled real estate out there, as the Illuminate remnants haven't reared their heads. Yet.

I am wondering if they're going to introduce any brand new enemy factions after they bring in the Illuminate successors.

I have joined Democracy.

Secessionists would be the logical choice for a 4th faction. We already know there's a contingent of dissatisfied citizens disinterested in being subjects of Super Earth who also believe the whole bug invasion is a massive coverup, and how Super Earth was willing to use the Helldivers to suppress their revolts.

And while I know it's highly unlikely since the devs said Pv P is out of the question it would make for a great premise to create a player invasion mechanic similar to Dark Souls or Sniper Elite 5.

Edited by SgtRicko on Mar 1st 2024 at 7:28:38 PM

This is probably the most detailed leak yet. It's confirmed that we're gonna be getting an armed buggy to drive around soon along with the previously leaked mechs. Several new guns and equipment are in the works too, including a bolt action explosive rifle, crossbow, teleportation pack, and a larger ammo supply backpack that only provides munitions instead of stimpacks and grenades.

The vehicle would be a godsave having to deal with objectives located across large stretches of the map.

Plus it makes it easier to fun away from foes.

Two indie Steam games were disguised as Helldivers 2 to scam players.

Never heard of this happening before.

'We have an actual person with the title of Game Master': A single Helldivers 2 dev named Joel is pulling the strings on its galactic war like an all-powerful D&D dungeon master, war will become 'more and more sophisticated over time'

Malevelon creek was a inside job.

My thought on the story and setting is this:

Super Earth:definitely authoritarian system that frankly could be anything from closet facist, to oligarchic, to democracy that's inherently corrupt...the point being though that jingoisim, militarism, and nationalism are so heavy and prevalent that it wouldn't matter what system it is...as they would parallel so easily (think 1984 between all three nations). Otherwise it's clear that the public is either in the dark, afraid to ask questions, have their intrests align with super earth, or actually unquestionably beleive what they are told. They would indeed be black...if it wasn't for the fact that the threats they are facing (constructed or otherwise...incompetace can result in problems) are indeed legitimate threats if left unmanaged...and in some cases the fight may be necessary for humanities expansion/security.

Terminids: they are bugs, they have a hive mind and frankly we know little actually on the extent of intelligence/sapience. We also don't know the longterm impacts of terminids on planets environments, or if they can develop forms that will spread across to other systems given time if left unchecked. Atm it's heavily suggested terminids are planted and "released" to be culled to not only give super earth a easy non-human threat to rally behind, but more importantly to convert into oil upon death. As for the morality in fighting and killing them...honestly, it "maybe" is justified if 1 of 3 parameters are reached (becoming more and more morally justifiable if more are true). 1.) Humanity is recource depleted and NEEDS oil to function without mass unrest and costs to life let alone expand and facilitate space travel. 2.) The bugs are non-sapient and are limited in inteligence, in which case they are livestock to be harvested for their recources (in turn also being spread and allowed to procreate further than its "natural" range), if not introduced by super earth they would infact be an invasive species in most cases and cause harm to environments most likely in the long run if adaptations are not made. 3.) They are indeed a threat that if left unmonitored and uncontrolled can and will destroy all human populations on a world...as well as likely changing a biosphere significantly with time (though uncertain what this would be). In Any case the bugs need to be culled as in any case it's unclear if humanity and the terminids could come to some sort of harmony, in which case it's in humanities best intrest to exterminate (i use that as genocide is a bit of a odd label considering what we know in regards to their sentience, presence of civilization and culture...Xenocide might be more applicable as it's another species that is likely alien) in the same regards its in the intrests of the terminids to kill off all of humanity.

The automatons: they are machines, robots whoms AI seeks to liberate their imprisoned cyborg masters now. They have no system of goverment (the cyborgs do but will discuss that in a bit), nor culture but instead exist to carry out set series of goals. What goal is certain is the liberation/rescue of their creators (will alsodiscuss the morality of this in a bit) aside from this we do not know if they were initially peaceful caretakers of the cyborgs worlds that took on warforms in response to super earth's aggression, or are just a weapon to free the cyborgs and fight super earth when they are unaware. What we also don't know is what level of AI inteligence they have on a unit or group level (I personally like to think akin to geth in that they are clearly networked, but units have some degree of autonomy and cordination). What is clear is that either by programing by their masters (a moral condemnation (but perphas pragmatic devision)to them on their part) or through developing sadism we have seen first hand the bots use terror tactics on civilians and helldivers alike (heads on stakes and the like). I won't say the legitimacy of the automatons invasion as I don't personally know that...I do know that it's clear though the cyborgs were indeed mobilized against disproportionately. As for my thoughts on fighting the automatons though...its necessary in the regards that it's actively unclear the results of a sucessful victory and if their victory conditions are even feasible...They are waging war to liberate their creators...would they stop aggressions and return if so? Would cyborgification become mandatory to "unite humanity" (and how that might comprimise humanities free will), or what if their creators are now dead?its been 100 years afterall and it's unknown how super earth treats its prisoners...if their creators are gone would they go on a genocidal purge of all humanity or just all citezens of super earth? Would they impose a society similar to their former masters? Honestly, in the intrests of humanity and super earth's future its best to destroy the automatons as the potential threat is dealt with vs. Uncertain futures and outcomes (most of which could put humanity in a worse position than it is now even under morally dubious super earth). What we have seen though is shear unrelenting pursuit of their objectives and overwhelming use of force as well as pragmatism given their recources and units...no real moral reasoning attached inherently as they are machines. Hell even their reason for saving their creators may not be done for "moral" reasons but instead to restore the cyborgs and/or receive creative input and insight into making new designs of machines to fight super earth's forces (which tactically is definitely not in super earth's intrests)

As for the cyborgs though: what is clear is that even if they had a system of goverment that may have been "better" (though we know that not for certain due to unreliable narrator and perspective) and were indeed agressed upon, they certainly have a grudge on super earth and it's citizenry (even if we took away the years of imprisonment) as in helldivers one allowing any faction to make it to super earth resulted in its destruction. Add in lack of programming in protocols against targeting civilians and other warcrimes paints them also in a morally comprimised position (even if it may be pragmatic in their war vs. Super earth). In turn unless there is guarantees to humanities preservation and the cessation of hostilities under conditions that are not worse than those already under super earth it is justified in keeping them imprisoned.

Finally foe the secret hidden faction likely to be introduced...eventually again...the illuminate: Aliens whom frankly could care less about humanity, but after the events of helldivers one see humanity as a legitimate threat that needs to be either destroyed or placed in an extremely controlled/limited existence...especially after their access to their tech. The illuminate in comparison to the bugs and automatons/cyborgs legitimately likely have as valid and justified a reason to oppose and fight super earth to a crawl...at the very same time though it's also justified humanity and super earth resist and fight them off for the sake of their security and likely existence.

In final thought: The war we find ourselves in the helldivers setting is not like the war in starship troopers (be it heinleins novel interpretation or the Paul Vanhoven movie interpretation) but more akin to the grimdark war of 40k. Humanity is fighting against threats that clearly don't have their intrest as a species at heart, and in the case of potentially the terminids are committing actions we would deem morally reprehensible out of necessity to keep their empire and species functioning (ex. Mass sacrifice to the golden throne and purging of psykers to avoid warp corruption or unchecked power compared to cultivating and harvesting terminid populations for oil and/or purging wild/out of control populations to protect human colonists and holdings) ultimately there is no good guys, but if your human it's best to fight for the guys whom have the best chance to keep your species alive and unbound by the wills of those whom do not relate to you on that fundamental level and thus unlikely to have humanities best intrest at heart.

In otherwords...this has been my Ted talk on a fictional setting and what I generally explain my position on politics and other stuff behind it...without getting meta-narrative and stuff.

So, let me see if I understand this right. While the Automaton front missions are challenging (though apparently the Terminids on Helldiver difficulty becomes outright ridiculous very quickly), much of its infamy come due to a bugged mission early on that, while on a 40 minute timer, apparently only shows 15 minutes of completion time once you've dropped in.

However, BECAUSE the game still considers the 40 minute time, it just drops forty minutes worth of Automaton spawns in those 15 minutes. Hence in those early tiktok videos and YT shorts where we have absolutely massive hordes of Automatons overrunning Helldiver squads in laser fire.

Considering that it's implied that the war with the cyborgs was started because of a False Flag Operation set up by Superearth, I'd say it was a defensive war for them and they had no interest in subjugating or destroying mankind.

Also, going by your reasonings, all the other factions would also be completely justified in destroying Superearth as its shown that they're a bunch of belligerent warmongers who will slaughter and enslave you either to plunder your resources, or simply to validate their own ideology.

I know that the Helldivers meta-game is about taking planets through successful operations, or losing them through failures. Mind you I'm not 100% sure on the mechanics. Is there like a bar that goes from 100% Superearth to 100% enemy, and once it reaches one extreme the planet is considered won or lost? Is there like a timer, and after a week or so do the outcomes of all the battles get aggregated to determine if the planet is won or lost? At any rate, for a while now the Helldivers have been throwing themselves at the planet Malevelon Creek, facing stiff resistance against Automatons, and recently the operation was deemed a failure as the planet has been lost, and from the way it's being treated by the community, it was apparently a big loss.

Edited by WillKeaton on Mar 4th 2024 at 11:23:06 AM

Yes, they are justified in wanting to destroy super earth. Super earth poses a threat to their very existence in many cases in their current state. It would be foolish to think they are not, it's all a matter of perspective though. If we played as any other faction it would be in the intrest of them to eliminate super earth as a threat. It is also in super earth's intrest to do the same and playing from their perspective and thus justified from their perspective.

If this was a different war, with open communications and negotiation, and objectives that did not mean the absolute destruction of the rival power...things might be different and could follow a traditional notion of war, but in this moral myopia that is not a option...and it seems that there is no challenging power in the setting that desires to actively do that...be they not capable of, or its not in their own ideology and intrests to do so. But atm, we are only human...and thus fighting for humanities survival is better than its destruction objectively.

But in all seriousness we are the bad guys no question, the other guys are just not much better...and that's fine to play the bag guys, they may have points, noble qualities at times, and even possible justification in setting (the Imperium of man or the empire in starwars), but like any faction there is always things to look down upon, and in our reality the circumstances and points are either non-existent or rendered mute by the existence of alternatives meaning they should not be emulated.

basically 100 of all planets within a sector you liberate the sector and then push deeper into another sector within a timelimit. This works in reverse so if players can "hold" a sector vs. Opposition they will hold it and can push or stop the offensive from going further.

The sector that contained malevelon creek could not be 100% liberated within that time limit (due to a variety of factors...) and thus the bots consolidated their hold and pushed into another front.

The reason why malevelon seems like a major loss was primarily how hard the community galvanized around it due to a variety of factors. The helldivers "could" have taken and held it...but, the result may have been the same if the whole sector was not liberated.

Atm it's off limits to the community and helldivers, but at the next opprotunity it likely will be flooded in the blood and oil of helldivers and bots again...especially with the significance it holds in the communities hearts.