Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Dagded Dujardin
So after a long time of reflecting I might've found an actual CM candidate from Unicorn Wars (it's not Azulin before anyone asks).
Work
Unicorn Wars is a 2022 Spanish animated film by . The film deals with sentient teddy bears who live in a community dominated by the military spirit, where they are trained to kill allegedly evil unicorns who drove their ancestors out of a magical forest. The military is brutal and unforgiving of friendships and as its worst traits seep into our protagonists, Azulin and Gordi, they lead to escalating bad consequences for everyone.
Candidate
Colonel Otto is the first half's main antagonist, the overseer of the Bear/Unicorn war who trains his soldiers in a brutal regime where love, kindness, sincere companionship and friendship are stamped out and rejected in favor of brutal, cruel efficiency. Seeking to wipe out the Unicorns to take over their forest and expand the bear's dominions and thus his power Otto is heavily implied to have personally killed many of them himself before his retirement form the field. Once he becomes supreme commander Otto makes sure the military forces are an unforgiving and cruel factory of obedient soldiers that die for his cause and to secure his power and control over the bears.
When Sargento Caricias' squadron is wiped out by an unicorn ambush, Otto figures they haven't come back and sends soldiers to find any survivors and they do find Azulin as he was horribly disfigured by a unicorn's attack while his brother, Gordi, went AWOL. After Azulin is patched up despite his injuries, Otto is impressed by his survival and promotes him to lieutenant, giving Azulin full control of the army' training.
Eventually Azulin decides to take the omnicidal road in winning the war by burning down the entire forest so they can kill every single unicorn at once, but Otto opposes it because he still wants the forest intact so he can rule over it, but Azulin has enough of him by that point and orders him executed once he's done discussing. Despite his death, his actions and cruelty led to Azulin wiping out both sides of the war and ultimately letting the evil "God" acquire its evolved humanoid form as had been intended by it.
Heinous Standard
Otto makes the heinous standard, he's shown as a xenophobic, fascistic and manipulative leader who takes advantage of the bears and unicorns' myth of the forest to control the populace, seeing any soldiers who die as acceptable sacrifices for the sake of maintaining power and only promoting survivors to perpetuate the false narrative of him being a caring leader.
He also hoards lavish meals for himself and his inner circle in glutonous feasts, while letting his troops subsist on nothing but measly rotting rations. On top of all that he's also a classist who views the majority of bearkind as beneath him.
Mitigating Factors?
None. Unlike most other bears he doesn't really believes in the prophecy or the religion of the bears and sees it as a useful tool to control the populace and the soldiers into being his obedient sacrificial pawns. He wants unicorns wiped out so bears can move into the forest and by extension expand his dominions purely for the sake of his narcissistic imperialism.
While he isn't thrilled at seeing Azulin go down the slippery slope after his rank-up and become a more unhinged soldier who plans to burn down the enitre forest, he rejects any moral objection to it despite a brief epiphany and instead just doubles down on his genocidal quest and only opposes Azulin's plan because it would deprive him of the land he intends to conquer.
Verdict
A solid keeper
And here's a lil' quote to show how much the great leader cares for his troops
Captain Snout: Bloody hell! They're pathetic, Colonel. They're scumbags. This is the worst group I've seen in a long time.
Colonel Otto: Precisely, Captain Snout. They're perfect. They won't be an important loss. Or perhaps you don't know the expression "collateral damage"?
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
Thanks to Wet and Starkrafty for the collab, let's do this
Time for the Fallout show, though this one is a cross from the show and games
The work
So Fallout (2024) is a TV show set in the Fallout franchise, primarily set 219 years after the bombs dropped in 2077, however there is a running plot of what was happening right before the Great War, and what truly caused it. And in the season finale we get several appearances of various characters seen or mentioned throughout the franchise, such as Leon von Felden.
Who is Leon von Felden and what has he done
Leon von Felden is a high-ranking researcher at West-Tek, a pre-war defense contractor and was the head researcher on the Forced Evolutionary Virus or FEV for short, a virus capable of mutating anyone or anything it infected.
Felden was interested in experimenting with the FEV to create super soldiers, and during a secret with Vault-Tec when he's told that they can use the vaults to run their own experiments Felden suggests using illegal immigrants as test subjects and he has no problem when Vault-Tec announces plans on starting the war themselves.
Felden then went to the Mariposa military base in California, where he takes over earlier research on the FEV, which had used only animals and began testing it on humans, with horrific results, while across the country West-Tek also performed experiments in Huntersville and eventually contaminated the town's river to test it, and Vault 87 will begin experimenting on their own residents after the war.
Eventually Felden actually created a successful variant, which created the first super mutants, and his counterpart experiments also eventually created their variants of super mutants as well, only for Army captain and founder of the Brotherhood of Steel Roger Maxson to revolt and execute the scientists involved, including Felden, but the results of his experiments live on for centuries to come.
Mitigating qualities
So the reason Felden never counted before was because we never actually learned anything about him, his presence was exclusively being vaguely described in old holotapes in the first game where he's mentioned to be head of research and that's it. He could've been an Unwitting Instigator of Doom that didn't realize what he was doing, we got nothing on him personally.
But then comes his appearance in the show, and while brief, it completely dispels any notion that he didn't know what he was doing, he's downright eager at the thought of experimenting on immigrants to create super soldiers and he's in on Vault-Tec's plan on starting a nuclear war to end civilization as they know it, any ambiguity with him is gone. And there's no hint of good intentions or anything, he's just a prick.
Heinousness
So Felden's not the only Mad Scientist in this franchise, far from it, but he has something no one else in the series can lay claim to: he created the FEV in it's current form, which makes him responsible so, so much.
The entire plot of the first game is the Master using the FEV to try and replace humanity with super mutants, the Enclave trying to use it to wipe everyone they consider impure, the Capitol Wasteland is overrun with super mutants from Vault 87, raiding and killing plenty of people to try turn them into super mutants, the mutants pillaging Appalachia, all of those come from his experiments, Felden is effectively the Greater-Scope Villain of the series, and with his inhumane experiments and being complicit in Vault-Tec's scheme to start the Great War the blood on his hands is insane.
Conclusion
I think he keeps, Wet will do his write up
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Dagded Dujardin
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Felden
Ultimate Moral Compass
Leon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Not the Eye
Leon and lean one to Otto
Heghodge
Big to Otto.
Just a starting content creator
Forgive me for skipping the Fallout EP. Haven't seen it yet but planning to. Yes to Otto.
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Do we know the show's canon?
Yes to Otto. Azulin too tragic?
Edited by ACW on Apr 26th 2024 at 5:51:59 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Just a starting content creator
Hope it's okay I upload this two hours early.
- Parkour Civilization (link): Evbo's predecessor as the Parkour Champion and leader of the eponymous civilization overthrew the previous champion by cheating in a parkour battle, after which he made radical changes to the rules of Parkour Civilization. Under his rule, anyone who falls into the void gets sent to prison, where before they simply respawned to try again, and prisoners are forced to constantly jump over a lake of lava, occasionally being chosen to test-run new parkour courses and potentially fall to their deaths. Noobs are subjected to mandatory parkour checks each day for food, while Pros must perform daily tasks or face punishment by being forced to partake in a parkour battle to the death against a Master. Paranoid of losing his power, he does everything to keep the lower ranks where they are by sabotaging the paths of advancement, even sending an assassin to kill Evbo when the latter overcomes the sabotage. When he faces Evbo in a parkour battle, the Champion quickly resorts to cheating with invisible barriers, sending Evbo back down to the Noob level, then immediately cuts off the food supply for both Noobs and Pros, condemning two thirds of Parkour Civilization to starvation out of petty spite. After Evbo returns for a rematch and starts winning, the Parkour Champion refuses to admit defeat and tries to kill both of them in a suicide attack.
There are currently three votes on this quote by me, Turles, and Geode. Last chance to vote for or against it before I submit it to drafts.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on Apr 26th 2024 at 3:30:06 AM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
The quote sounds pretty good.
Otto and Leon
Any thoughts on this quote?
Goku Black
Otto and Leon
@acw:Yes Todd Howard. Betsheba's ceo said it is.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 26th 2024 at 3:31:32 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Just a starting content creator
Hang on, how do I submit a quote? Am I supposed to propose one on this thread or this one?
Goku Black
No purpose it here
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So will the candidate(s) from the show just go at the top of the page?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Hoenstly I Dunno. Their also the greater scope villains of the franchise as a whole.
On the other hand Stanislaus Braun only goes under fallout 3 and he's the creator of vault tech's experiments franchise wide. Since it's also the only place he appears
Edited by miraculous on Apr 26th 2024 at 4:01:22 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Amateur Storytime: The quote is sent to drafts, ACW then added.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Leon and Otto
Just a starting content creator
Is there a different draft for quotes, or does it go under the regular drafts page?
EDIT: Nevermind. found it.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on Apr 26th 2024 at 3:46:12 AM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That quote project you found is the quotes for the pages. And you have a quote for CM villains, so in your case just move the quote to the same place as the sentences and as already said, ACW will take care of it later.
Just a starting content creator
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think I'll just have a show tree above the other folders (any other show candidates?).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Definitely yes. Scraggle definitely has one at least (possibly the Big Bad of the series).
The image should've been under ImageLinks.Head Turned Backwards