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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  4. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  5. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  6. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  7. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  8. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  9. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM

EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
#42476: Apr 24th 2024 at 1:04:16 PM

[tdown] Ursula, damage sounds to vague.

Happy Birthday either way Godwriter.

Also finished Crisis on the Infinite Earths part two. PM if curious.

Thermal7 Since: Oct, 2018
#42477: Apr 24th 2024 at 1:10:49 PM

@randomtroper89 I believe that since it's a fanfic universe of sorts, it has different plots, different stakes, and therefore, a different Heinous Standard. It makes makes no sense to compare Garrison to any official CSI series. Personally, I'm abstaining, but if you're going to vote on Garrison, then stick to the fanfic universe's established Heinous Standard.

TurlesTheVegan from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#42479: Apr 24th 2024 at 1:17:49 PM

I’m only inclined to take such statements about destruction in very specific circumstances. When Hazanko explicitly takes the Galactic Leyline to start a war, a character who’s linked to its power and able to see the future states “The whole universe will be in danger” unless it’s made clear by the equivalent of someone who can say the future, I feel it’s too nebulous.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#42480: Apr 24th 2024 at 1:20:23 PM

[tdown]ursula

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
LarryT I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT! from the Eldritch Ocean Abyss Since: Aug, 2023
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
#42481: Apr 24th 2024 at 1:27:28 PM

[tup] Razanak and Eric

[tdown] Ursula, though happy birthday Godrwiter

Edited by LarryT on Apr 24th 2024 at 1:27:38 AM

In honor of Akira Toriyama
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime from Newfoundland Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#42482: Apr 24th 2024 at 1:30:23 PM

[tup] Razanak and Eric. [tdown] Ursula. (BTW, happy birthday Godwriter, even though I personally think you need to put more effort in your, well, effortposts.)

You've been kicked out of the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. :(
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#42483: Apr 24th 2024 at 1:55:36 PM

What is the work?

Aladdin: The Series is an animated TV series serving as a sequel to Disney's Aladdin. The series is set after Aladdin: The Return of Jafar and follows the various adventures of Aladdin and his friends.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

Aziz is a villain who first makes his appearance in the two-parts episode "Seems Like Old Crimes". He worked as a fakir (and, to quote Aladdin's words, "that guy put the fake in fakir") in a traveling circus alongside an acrobat named Fatima, their strong leader Minos and everyone's favorite monkey, Abu, who would steal money from people while the other three would distract them with their show (although the three would continuously mistreat him). One day, Abu robs Aladdin, causing the latter to start chasing him. Minos would want to give a lesson to Aladdin (with Aziz being all too happy about it), but Fatima sees the kid's talents as useful and convinces Minos to let him join their group. To make it really short, Aladdin and Abu rob people together during the shows, then one night they see the consequences their actions had on a family and so Aladdin tells Minos and Fatima that he doesn't want to steal anymore. Minos pretends to be regretful over his actions, saying he's tired of this life, and eventually we learn why the three welcomed Aladdin into their group: they want his help to get the Destiny Stone, which is in a temple protected by many traps. Aladdin makes it past the traps, and they find the Destiny Stone alongside an old man serving as its guardian. Minos immediately tries to steal it, even punching the poor old man, which causes Aladdin and Abu to start fighting against the other three, with Aziz contributing to the fight by spitting fire (literally). When Minos picks up the stone, the latter suddenly activates, and he, Fatima and Aziz are trapped inside it.

Years later, the three manage to escape from it, but they've all been turned into monsters: Minos has become a minotaur, Fatima has become an harpy and Aziz has become a goblin with magical powers. The three start causing havoc in Agrabah, stealing all they can. While Minos and Aziz don't mind their new forms too much, Fatima is all but happy of having been turned into a monster. To comfort his beloved woman, Minos decides that he's going to conquer Agrabah for her. The three head to the palace, and let's just say they aren't happy when they discover Aladdin became Jasmine's boyfriend. Speaking of Aladdin, he and the others arrive at the palace and a fight starts, during which Aziz tries to burn Jasmine alive. After Fatime gets hurt by the Genie, Minos orders Aziz to make them retreat, and the goblin obliges, but not before kidnapping Abu. Back at their headquarters, the three decide to use Abu as a way to lure Aladdin to get revenge on him. When the heroes arrive, Aziz attempts to trap Aladdin inside a stone with his magic, but accidentally traps Jasmine instead as she shoves Aladdin out of the way, and the three disappear alongside her and Abu. The heroes arrive once more, and yet another fight starts. When Fatima sees just how much Aladdin and Jasmine love each other and are ready to risk for one another, she understands that vengeance won't bring them anywhere; Aziz however doesn't appreciate her little change of heart, and when Minos intervenes Aziz declares that now he has the power and that he won't allow the two to bully him anymore, before attacking them, nearly killing Minos. The two's change of heart however doesn't go unrewarded as the Destiny Stone turns them back into humans. Minos offers Aziz to return as a human as well, but he refuses, stating that "nasty is [his] destiny" before fleeing.

Aziz makes his second and final appearance in the episode "Destiny on Fire", where he attacks Agrabah while Aladdin, Abu, Iago and the Carpet are all away, turning all its inhabitants into slug-like creatures, with the exception of Rasoul. When the group reaches the castle, Aziz reveals himself and spends essentially the entire episode messing with them, telling them that Jasmine and her father are still somewhere in the palace (we later discover they've also been turned into slugs, and have been trapped inside a pair of jars), leading them to fake directions to find them, chaining Aladdin and Rasoul with a chain that appears whenever the two don't get along, attempting to kill them with snow and sand, and turning Abu, the Carpet and the Genie into slugs. Just before the Genie is turned, however, Aladdin and Rasoul understand that if Aziz uses his powers too much, he becomes more and more unstable. The two manage to trick the evil goblin into using his powers as much as he can, until he overloads and explodes, finally dying.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

In his first appearance Aziz does have some comedic moments (like how he fails a magic trick involving chains, and him essentially being a Butt-Monkey), but by the time he makes his second appearance his comedic moments disappear completely, and we see what kind of threat he really is when not limited by Minos or Fatima.

Are they bad enough?

This series has a surprisingly high heinous standards (with the two currently approved villains being people who, for example, enslaved an entire species and turned children into monsters, and even some non-approved ones get some pretty heinous momente, like Mechanicles, who becomes an outright Omnicidal Maniac in one episode) but I'd say that Aziz manages to be bad enough. While in his first appearance he isn't particularly heinous (although even before betraying Minos and Fatima he already proved to be the most unpleasant of the three, and attempted to attack Fatima at one point out of anger), the second episode is where he really shines. Now, people being transformed isn't new to this series, and in one episode Aladdin himself was put through a pretty bad and painful transformation by a mermaid, but Aziz stands out because he does so to the ENTIRE city. And yes, I can safely say being turned into one of those slug-like creatures is a Fate Worse than Death because they have a continuous expression of pain on their faces and we hear them moaning and crying.

Final verdict?

Yes to me.

Edited by CapitanoNox on Apr 24th 2024 at 10:58:19 AM

LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime from Newfoundland Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
DoodSlayer136 Woagh from Pizza Tower (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Woagh
#42487: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:16:04 PM

How badly is "turing people into slugs" played on a kids show? Cuz if they're turned back by the end of the episode than i don't think its played as bad as it could be if so.

NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#42488: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:17:14 PM

As I said, they always have a pained expression, and moan and cry at various points. Yes, they are turned back by the end of episode, but it takes the heroes to actually kill Aziz to achieve that (as the Genie himself is unable to turn them back). That sounds way more than enough to me for a FWTD in a kids' show.

Edited by CapitanoNox on Apr 24th 2024 at 11:23:41 AM

AmateurStorytime Just a starting content creator from Home Since: Mar, 2024
DoodSlayer136 Woagh from Pizza Tower (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Woagh
#42490: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:21:20 PM

Honestly if the (already rather tame sounding) transformation is undone by the end i'm leaning [tdown] on Aziz, doesn't sound like it's played as bad as it could be.

NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Starkrafty pronounced 'Scraggle' (Pentatroper)
pronounced 'Scraggle'
#42491: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:24:34 PM

"No" to Aziz. Other villains have tried to outright destroy Agrabah and worse and having seen the episodes I don't agree with the notion that the Forced Transformation is as bad as you're making it out to be.

Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#42493: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:27:09 PM

[tdown]aziz

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#42494: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:31:03 PM

I was going back and forth on whether Aziz was worth proposing but then I also remembered that Abis Mal ,a complete buffoon, almost accidentally rendered Agrabah scorched by a fire demon because he couldn't control it. The standard's quite nasty for a Saturday morning cartoon.

Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
AmateurStorytime Just a starting content creator from Home Since: Mar, 2024
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#42497: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:42:49 PM

Well it's April 24th. Anyone count in Civil War (2024)

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#42498: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:47:02 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
WilyGryphon Since: Apr, 2023
#42499: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:48:57 PM

[tdown] Ursula since the damage threatened is too vague and it doesn't seem clear if it actually came to pass. But happy birthday, Godwriter.

[tdown] Aziz

AmateurStorytime Just a starting content creator from Home Since: Mar, 2024
Just a starting content creator
#42500: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:58:03 PM

So I have two potential quotes for the Parkour Champion. Can I propose them now, or should I wait until the end of the three day period for the official write-up?

Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!

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