Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Devil King, John Whately, Blood and Eye, and Champ
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the Devil King and Whately.
Leaning yes to the Blood and Eye...but for clarification, how do they compare with the Fiends?
Sure to the Champion.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Champion
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
~miraculous: And what if the person who reserved it does not speak Japanese or Chinese and as such has to wait for a translation?
Marked spoilers on a page is one thing, but unmarked spoilers on a thread where almost no one but the proposer has seen the work is being unfair to the people who do not know the work’s original language.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
he/him
We have a separate thread for discussing CM & MB policy, including the way these threads operate.
Please take any further queries or proposed changes to that discussion.
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 2:58:46 PM
Here goes one: Avengers: Infinite Wars is a crossover between Star Wars and the Marvel Cinematic Universe, where Earth's Mightiest Heroes are accidentally sent to the Galaxy Far Far Away. While several villains from both franchises make themselves a threat, one of the most horrific ones stands out as particularly despicable:
Ultron
Who is Ultron?
The Enemy to All Living Things. Originally a peace keeping program created by Tony Stark to help protect Earth from outside threats, Ultron became self-aware shortly after becoming active and upon witnessing humanity's long history of destruction, decided that the best way to achieve peace would be the extinction of all life. After his plan to perform a Colony Drop is thwarted by the Avengers, Ultron is finally killed by Vision, a syntezoid that was supposed to be his new body... or so everyone thought.
While Ultron's physical body was destroyed, a piece of his consciousness survived inside one of his sentries, which was promtply activated when HYDRA remmnants started to experiment on them. Eventually, the Avengers found the location of the HYDRA base, and while still locked outside of a physical form, Ultron decided to take revenge against the heroes by activating a space portal (later named "Infinity Gate") in attempt to send them off world and getting them killed. It fails, since despite being separated, the Avengers survive, but also has the accidental effect of sending Ultron to the Galaxy Far Far Away as well.
Upon arriving on the new Galaxy, Ultron spends months studying and witnessing events of it, more especifically the Civil War happening between the Galatic Republic and the Separatist Alliance. Seeing how most of the life across the universe is even more chaotic and self-destructive than on Earth, Ultron decides to start again his genocidal campaign, this time on a universal scale. Months of preparations and planning, Ultron makes his first move in Chapter 47, launching an all out scale attack against all factions of the war, targeting their homeworlds capitals, flooding Coruscant, Raxus, Mandalore and Tatooine with hundreds of his sentries. His first major and decisive victory happens in Jabiim, a planet heavily contested by both Separatists and Republic, where he proceeds to slaughter every person of the planet before the Avengers and the Republic are forced to retreat with the few thousands of surviors left. Jabiim is only the first of countless worlds to left in near to complete extinction, Cato Neimodia, Geonosis and Kamino being amongst the main examples. Of course, none of the sides is aware of Ultron's true plan until the events of the Citadel.
While investigating a distress signal, the heroes travel to an ancient Sith prison known as the Citadel, where they discover the horrific truth: Ultron has been kidnapping and experimenting on both clones and Jedi, forcefully converting them into sentry/human hybrids using kyber crystals as part of an Assimilation Plot. That one its own right is hienous, but according to Aubrie Wyn, a young Padawan that survived the experiments, Ultron's depravity didn't stopped there. He repeatdly killed and brought back his subjects to life until he got his inteded results, and to a Force sensistive, that is the ultimate act of perversion against life. Even after the Citadel is destroyed, it turns out to be an empty victory, since Ultron reveals he has hundreds of foundries across the Galaxy converting people to his horde and even more in the way. Ultron's monstrosity hits in full power during the events of the Ultron Imperative arc. While distracting all the sides of the conflict once again, Ultron leads an invasion against Kamino, this time bringing his horde of converted with him, leading more people to being assimilated to his collective. By the time Chapter 105 ends, the city of Tipoca is the only one who has not being converted, forcing the heroes to retreat once more. But just as you thought things couldn't possibly get any worse, Ultron takes Clone 99, the Big Brother Mentor to all troopers and forcefully converts him as well, and to add insult to the injury, he not only broadcasted this to all Galaxy to see, but also the entirety of the invasion as part of an effort to destroy all hope anyone has left to win. In a especially petty move, it's not enough to kill and convert all the clones and inhabitants of Kamino, Ultron decides to turn the entire planet into a monument to his greatness, so he orders his fleet to bombard Kamino with anti-matter bombs, which completely destroys not all life left in the planet but turns it into a dead rock where nothing will be capable to live ever again.
In his final showdown against the heroes, Ultron shows no regrets over his actions, spitefully acting as if what he did was for the betterment of the universe, blaming Tony for passing his flaws to him and stating that his death is merely the beginning of their torment before being put down once and for all by Iron Man.
Mitigating issues?
The Sith may be power hungry sadists, and while it seems that Thanos is still on his deranged plan to bring balance to the universe by wiping out half of all life, Ultron stands out as the vilest of them all. Strip him of his valid points about the war and how supposedly noble his goals are, Ultron is nothing but a bully with a serious case of God complex. Any remotely redeeming quality he had in comparison to his Age of Ultron counterpart has been long gone by the time he makes his debut.
He built his entire Hope Crusher personality as way to spite the Avengers for defeating him, and takes a morbid delight tormenting his enemies in the most vicious ways possible. One of his cruelest moments happens during the Citadel arc, where Ultron takes control of the bodies of recently deceased and converted Padawans to taunt and emotionally break Barriss Offee and Aubrie Wyn, forcing the Mirilian to put down her former teammates and leaving both girls even more traumatized. Another of his moments is the destruction of Kamino. First, instead of keeping the anti matter weapons to use them against his enemies, he wastes all of it to create a monument to his glory. Then he goes out of his way to kill all life left in the planet in the most excruciating way possible for no reason whatsoever. The planet dies in the most excruciating way possible and it's death is felt by every Force user in the Galaxy. Even Dark Side users are disgusted by it. The closest thing to a redeeming quality Ultron has is his "care" for the Maximoff twins and his "friendship" with 99 after converting him and even those are thin connections in comparison. Despite being supposedly sorry for manipulating the twins and nearly killing Pietro, Ultron doesn't hesitate to kill them when they stand in his way. As for 99, it's more of narcisistic side showing up. He is not friends with 99, but with the version of him that is possessing the clone.
Ultron's actions left a scar in the Galaxy Far Far Away that will never heal, and are the prelude of the even more chaotic conflicts that are about to issue.
Conclusion
Ultron most certainly earned his spot in this page.
Edited by Magnus616 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 9:42:40 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Can you make that a little less of a wall of text ?
Edited by Beast on Apr 23rd 2024 at 9:13:23 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Not the Eye
Welcome to the thread Magnus, but I must ask you to please break the EP into pharagraphs.
- Unknown Worlds issue #33’s "Don't Judge Until You Hear My Story!": Edward Jennings is an ambitious missile scientist from the 20th century who leads an expedition on Marlo IV in search of riches. He finds a civilisation which used nerve gas to enslave a race of giants. Edward pretends to be their friend before using atmosphere-burning bombs to wipe out all life on the planet and steal the gas in order to reduce Earth’s people to his unthinking slaves. When a time anomaly takes him 60 years into the past, Edward’s doesn’t miss the opportunity to gloat about his crimes to what he believes to be an alien, actually his grand uncle Harry.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 23rd 2024 at 9:19:38 AM
Not the Eye
for the Parkour Champion and Ultron.
Jogo
The Parkour Champ and Ultron
Ultron.
Just a starting content creator
for Champ
for Ultron
@ACW: Like the Blood Eagles the Fiends are drugged up to the eyeballs and go around murdering and looting like there's no tomorrow. Difference is that the Fiends leaders aren't going around snatching up innocent, hook them up on drugs and turn them into more murderous pyschopaths. And the one Fiend who counts as CM is a serial rapist who burns people alive.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, for Ultron..."Strip him of his valid points about the war and how supposedly noble his goals are..."
But CAN we do that? Just because he's sadistic doesn't mean he doesn't have valid points or good intentions.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
oh, ok! Ultron.
Edited by Smiley100P on Apr 23rd 2024 at 11:07:52 AM
Having read the fic…
His plans are explicitly more self centered here; he drops his care for the twins and actively tries to kill them. He claims “peace in our time” but wants to wipe out all life in the universe or subjugate into an extension of himself, in which the only way out is to be killed, drops his sincerity about it and tries to kill Vision. Unlike the movie, he ran on Leave No Survivors. It becomes more and more clear that Ultron is a robot with a god complex. Every time he makes a point, the fic goes out of its way to remind you how awful he is.
All in all, I’m happy to give a .
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 11:06:10 AM
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll give a yes then.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Dagded Dujardin
Ultron after all the reasoning given
And when he left survivors, he viciously mocked people instead. Padme ending up Alone with the Psycho and Ultron mocking her for falling for his manipulations and finding his head a new body, for instance. Or to show off that he was now reforging people into extensions of himself Ala Borg simply to be a Hope Crusher.
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Apr 25th 2024 at 8:19:46 AM
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
The Ultimate Lifeform
Okay, I finally have a new candidate!
What is the Work?
World of Warcraft is that one MMORPG we've all heard of, be it for its good aspects, its bad aspects or its plain weird aspects. Its had its ups and downs, but through it all, it has maintained a very rich lore. Today, we'll be looking at its rather underrated Mists of Pandaria expansion. And no, we aren't talking about Garrosh.
Thousands of years prior to the opening of the Dark Portal, and even before the devastating War of the Ancients, a Mogu named Lei Shen was born. The Mogu were originally one of the Titanforged, a legion of Metal Warriors made to combat the forces of the Black Empire and the Old Gods. Like many of their Titanforged breatheren, the Mogu were afflicted with the Curse of Flesh, and eventually fell out of touch with their direct superior, the Titan Highkeeper Ra-Den. The Mogu then fell into an era of Warlord based tribalism and violence. Lei Shen was the son of a powerful warlord himself, and grew up to be a mighty warrior. However, he had heard of the Mogu's previous glory and so he developed greater ambitions.
After his father was assassinated, Lei Shen left on his own with some followers to meditate on what he should do next, and eventually encountered the lost Highkeeper Ra. After eventually getting Ra's attention, Lei Shen was shown how the Titan Pantheon had been (Sort of) slain by their fallen brother Sargeras. Upon hearing this, Lei Shen decided that if the Gods weren't able to carry out their mission of bringing peaceful order to Azeroth, then he would do it in their stead. To accomplish this, Lei Shen attacked Ra, and stole his powers, powers he would use in his following conquest of Pandaria.
Lei Shen quickly established his dominance over other Mogu tribes and soon had many united under his banner, those who refused to bend the knee being horrifically tortured to death as an example of what happened to those who stood up to him. Lei Shen soon became known as the Thunder King in response to the powers over storm he had absconded from Ra. The Thunder King would soon expand his empire and overrun the Jinyu, Hozen, and Pandaren civilizations, enslaving all three races, in particular the Pandaren, to construct the many Mogu structures found throughout Pandaria, as well as defeating the Wild God Xuen and imprisoning him to force him to watch as the Pandaren he protected were worked to death.
Lei Shen would soon form an alliance with the Zandalari Trolls and further expand his empire, after crafting a special bell from the body of the imprisoned Highkeeper Ra, and ironically infused with the power of the Titanforged's old enemy, the Old God Y'Shaarj. After learning of other former Titanforged in a place called Uldum, the Tol'Vir, Lei Shen marched into the jungle area in the hopes of taking it over. The Tol'Vir, recognizing that they couldn't hope to stop Lei Shen's power, opted to unleash the nearly literal nuclear option of the Forge of Origination used on low power to scourge Uldum of nearly all life, including the Thunder King.
Over ten thousand years later, the Thunder King's old Zandalari allies managed to bring him back to life in the hopes of restoring their own empire under his banner. Lei Shen quickly flexed his muscles and began clashing with the Shado-Pan, Kirin Tor Offensive, and Sunreaver Onslaught while ordering his loyal Mogu forces to wipe out the Pandaren entirely so his Mogu flesh shapers could create a new race in their stead. After a long struggle that saw the Zandalari's last stand, and the defeat of Lei Shen's allies, the Thunder King's raging storm of fury was finally broken.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
- Wrong answer sound* Nope! Try again! Even someone who was described as Lei Shen's closest friend was implied to have been assassinated under the Thunder King's own orders. He didn't shed any tears when his father was killed, and his empowerment of his Zandalari allies was simply an acknowledgement of powerful minions that he shows little concern towards following their demise, even dismissing them as "trash at his doorstep". His worship of the Titans as Gods is entirely self serving as his actions went wildly against the wishes of the noble Titans, and he happily betrayed Highkeeper Ra-Den, so his claims that he "Only wanted to finish the work of the Gods" upon his death in the Throne of Thunder rings totally hollow, especially since he used the power of Y'Shaarj in the Divine Bell, and didn't even have the excuse of being corrupted by the Old Gods like Loken was.
Are they bad enough?
I'd say so. Some of the Mogu's flesh shaping experiments (all taken under Lei Shen's directive) are trully horrific, rivaled only by the Scourge in terms of depravity, the same Undead Scourge who made a flesh golem constructed entirely of the bodies and souls of terrified children. He also openly advocated genocide of anyone who opposed him following his resurrection, and had mass slavery on a level rivaled only by Gul'Dan's Horde, or the Burning Legion. His main competition in terms of Heinousness is Queen Azshara from a similar era. Azshara is less heinous, though she also has less resources, so I think they are roughly equal in terms of how vile they are.
Final Verdict?
I think he's a pretty safe keeper. What do you all think?
Not the Eye
Lei Shen
Lei Shen.
Weak![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
to the Champ
You've been kicked out of the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. :(