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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  4. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  5. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  6. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  7. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  8. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  9. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40376: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:14:34 PM

I'm...Imma just abstain on this.

Also, I trimmed Coredegon:

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ghal-Sur Since: Jan, 2023
#40377: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:19:00 PM

[up]No problem. Your trim looks very good.

I apologize in advance for any uncomfortable suggestions from this film. It's always annoying when creators use works to promote their beliefs..Especially when they are quite toxic and negative. Once again I apologize for any inconvenience and discomfort for the suggestions from this film.

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#40378: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:22:12 PM

Hard abstain from a work promoting QAnon and similar IRL fascists.

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#40379: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:26:53 PM

[tup] Hojo

[tdown] Enide

Not touching Giselle or anything related to Sound of Freedom.

Voyd211 (Long Runner)
#40380: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:30:12 PM

Hi hiiii! Been a while, hasn't it? Well, since I'm here, I figured I'd plug a friend's masterpiece of AU worldbuilding, and nominate the main villain for your approval

What's the work?

The Fenrykan Heresy is a Horus Heresy legion-swap AU written by a friend of mine, where every Traitor legion is now Loyalist and vice versa. The ending is more hopeful, but things start off way worse, especially with the first Primarch to fall, the source of our new Heresy: Leman Russ.

Who is this version of Leman Russ?

Leman Russ, here as in canon, is a son of the Emperor who lands on the icy world of Fenris after being scattered by the Chaos Gods. From there, though… nothing is right. On the basic level, he's a walking allegory for the hypocrisy of the canon Wolves, publicly decrying psykers and warring with the Thousand Sons over this fact, but still using Rune Priests (who are of course psykers themselves) and consorting with spirits that are clearly daemons. He also values strength above all else, and that those without it (or those he perceives as having "stolen it") are to be crushed without mercy.

He falls to the power of Tzeentch, and eagerly serves him from then on, slowly twisting his brothers into parodies of their former selves.

What has he done?

You mean besides start a galaxy-spanning civil war? Quite a bit, actually.

With the help of his master and his Rune Priests, Leman finds the faults in his brothers and slowly turns them against each other and to his side.

When Fulgrim finds the Laer sword, instead of claiming it as his own he gives it to Ferrus Manus. Leman encourages him to pursue perfection, as the sword demands, and sits back as the Iron Hands fall to Slaanesh.

Leman tries to keep Konrad Curze nice and crazy by trying to steer him away from Magnus, the one person who can understand and help him.

He takes advantage of Vulkan's desperate desire for the love of his sons, and convinces him to burn and torture them to make them like him, and to make them love him.

Corvus finds his sons transforming into monsters, and turns to Russ in desperation. The Wolf King convinces him that these twisted, maddened Marines can be useful, written off as part of the enemy, and that he should make more of them, and thus teaches Corvus gene-science and turns him into an experimental madman.

Turning the Lion and his Angels is easy; just drop some plasma weapons somewhere, make sure they're nice and tainted with Khorne juice, and sit back and watch the gory fireworks.

He doesn't manage to convert Lorgar, but he does take Erebus and Kor Phaeron into his ranks, makes them high-ranking aides and his personal honor guard… all for the purpose of shocking Lorgar in the final battle with the men who taught him how to live, and giving the Wolf King a moment to strike him down.

Here as in canon, the Wolves sack Prospero, but rather than them being deceived, it's completely intended. Russ wanted to remove his greatest rival from the board, and settled for burning his homeworld. He further lied about the battle to the Emperor, tricking his father into nearly destroying Magnus.

As for the Blood Angels… this might be the worst one. Russ learns of the Red Thirst and Black Rage, and Sanguinius' desperation to find a solution to it. To this end, Russ gives a whole world of people "medicine" that in truth contains a blessing from Nurgle, spreading throughout the planetary population in two or three generations, and lets cults establish themselves to get the Angels' attention. It turns out, the blood of the cultists and the planetary population calms the Red Thirst, and the Angels begin gleefully exploiting the population for their blood. Eventually, Sanguinius joins them in a victory feast. Lots of cannibalism. Nasty stuff. They all mutate into crazed monsters, hallucinating that they and their Primarch are still beautiful champions of righteousness, when really they're nothing more than the half-dead pawns of the Wolf King.

After all of that, and the aforementioned galaxy-spanning civil war, Leman Russ meets the same fate as the canonical Horus: a violently magical corpse next to his broken father and the body of one of his brothers.

Any mitigating factors or Freudian Excuse?

None I can think of. Canonical Leman lived on the same icy death ball, so it only takes a simple difference in Leman's own character to make him like this. He also has quite a bit of agency; he makes the decisions, not Tzeentch, with the god simply offering him suggestions.

Is he bad enough?

God, Warhammer's heinous standard is fucked but since, unlike Horus, Leman is directly responsible for the Heresy (even taking on some of Erebus' usual role), he probably is. This AU's versions of Guilliman and Dorn are also pretty bad, but they don't do a whole heck of a lot that isn't directly instigated by Russ.

Final Verdict:

It feels weird, possibly even heretical, to be saying this about a version of my favorite Primarch, but: yes. The Wolf King of Evil feels like a solid pick.

MermaidEyes15 A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds from The Grand Dance of the Vast Universe of Life Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Puppy love
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
#40381: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:31:33 PM

Sure to Hojo and Leman. Abstain Giselle

Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#40382: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:32:14 PM

[tup] to Hojo, Gisele and Leman.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Mar 29th 2024 at 5:32:27 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#40383: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:32:53 PM

Were the conspiracies actually in the movie or was it just the creators saying shit? (I haven’t seen it and I’m hearing mixed things about whether it is or isn’t promoting)

Abstain on Giselle. Sounds vile, but I don’t want to promote anything pushing conspiracies.

[tup]Leman

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 29th 2024 at 2:34:51 AM

EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
TurlesTheVegan from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#40385: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:36:57 PM

[tup] for Leman Russ.

Abstain on Giselle.

Ravok Caesar Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Caesar
#40386: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:48:25 PM

Sure to Russ, not touching Giselle just as I didn't back when it was first discussed.

WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
TheCosmicCollector A Child from the Stars from Somewhere Beyond the Boiling Isles. Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
A Child from the Stars
#40387: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:49:03 PM

[tup] for Leman.

Abstain for Giselle, just...not comfortable giving that group attention.

Edited by TheCosmicCollector on Mar 29th 2024 at 5:49:25 AM

"If we're gonna play Owl House, we're gonna NEED an Owl House!"
LarryT I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT! from the Eldritch Ocean Abyss Since: Aug, 2023
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
#40388: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:53:00 PM

[tup] Leman and cautious yeah to Giselle

Also welcome back Voyd

Edited by LarryT on Mar 29th 2024 at 2:56:59 AM

In honor of Akira Toriyama
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#40389: Mar 29th 2024 at 2:57:55 PM

@Nywoz: Nah the actual film doesn't contain any of said theories.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Klavice Since: Jan, 2011
#40390: Mar 29th 2024 at 3:01:22 PM

I don't know, Hojo seems like a loving, wonderful, supportive dad to Sephy... Seriously though I hope this Hojo gets killed by Sephiroth in Rebirth. I take it Jenova is too ambiguous to count or rather isn't characterized as much as OG, who still didn't count despite being a textbook example of Aliens Are Bastards. Honestly though if she's behind Sephiroth's actions that might be enough. If I wasn't clear by this, hell yes to Hojo. Abstain on Giselle. Yes to Russ for now assuming the HS is not an issue.

Edited by Klavice on Mar 29th 2024 at 3:08:24 AM

Thomas2002 That guy that adores Kugeki and Compile Heart from In the Holo-Chronicles page, by myself, because Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Robosexual
That guy that adores Kugeki and Compile Heart
#40391: Mar 29th 2024 at 3:05:21 PM

Uh... yeah, that's a big ol' [tup] for Leman Russ.

is saying this as someone well and truly unfamiliar with Warhammer

Does anyone else know Holo-Chronicles? No? Just me? Well do yourself a damn favor and look it up, because it is AWESOME.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40392: Mar 29th 2024 at 3:06:04 PM

So for Russ, there's no implication him being on the icy death ball warped him? If not, sure to him. Seems like he combines the worst of Erebus and Horus, without the latter's canon mitigating qualities.

Pending:

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Voyd211 (Long Runner)
#40393: Mar 29th 2024 at 3:10:06 PM

Pretty much. Canon Russ grew up on the same world and didn't fall.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#40394: Mar 29th 2024 at 3:43:33 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#40395: Mar 29th 2024 at 3:56:49 PM

[tup] Leman

Abstaining hard on Giselle

"No running in the halls!"
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#40396: Mar 29th 2024 at 3:58:52 PM

Although, call me paranoid, but I hope she isn't being proposed by same banned user, is she?

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#40397: Mar 29th 2024 at 4:16:44 PM

[tup] Leman, Hojo

Just like last time I want nothing to do with Sound of freedom, abstaining

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#40398: Mar 29th 2024 at 4:24:45 PM

@emperors Can we not get into the notion that calling fascists "fascists" is wrong? Not the place, if you think Giselle keeps, you're free to upvote her.

Happy [tup] to Leman

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Mar 29th 2024 at 8:29:25 AM

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#40399: Mar 29th 2024 at 4:27:10 PM

[tup] to Lehman, and very much echoing [up]. I referred to QAnon as fascists... because they're literally fascists who want to institute mass executions of anyone who has an even slightly different opinion to them. But let's just agree to drop this topic, okay?

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#40400: Mar 29th 2024 at 4:33:51 PM

Klavice Jenova is insufficiently characterized so they don’t count

Plus we don’t even know if it’s sentient


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