Can examples for Memetic Mutation and Ascended Meme coexist for the same meme?

So in this "Is This An Example" post, I proposed these examples for the show Agent Ali, and it was brought up that if it's an Ascended Meme, there shouldn't be a Memetic Mutation entry as well (since Ascended Meme is a subtrope, supposedly). I'm unsure about this because one is YMMV while the other isn't. Both of these have full context so I could understand if having both examples exist can be seen as redundant.

Here's the to-be-made examples:

• Memetic Mutation: Kita Jaga Kita. ^Explanation The title for one of The Movie's soundtracks, which means "We take care of our own." In the 2019 film, it's from the perspective of the slum citizens, the Pinggiran, who must fend for themselves. In March 2020, the song became a theme for Malaysians fighting against the COVID-19 Pandemic, with a hashtag and website being born out of the phrase. With the release of the "Misi: Juang" (Mission: Fight) short, which depicts a physical fight against the virus with a reprise of "Kita Jaga Kita," and the song's official music video commemorating Malaysia's frontliners, it's also an Ascended Meme.

• Ascended Meme: The movie soundtrack "Kita Jaga Kita" ("We take care of our own"), originally used in the film for the Pinggiran citizens who must fend for themselves, went viral in the wake of the COVID-19 Pandemic as Malaysia's theme for fighting against the virus. On 31st August 2020, (Malaysia's 63rd Independence Day), an official music video was released, dedicated to all Malaysians fighting COVID-19. In late 2020, a short titled "Misi: Juang" (Mission: Fight), depicts the characters in a physical fight against the virus, with "Kita Jaga Kita" as the background score.

To reiterate, can both these examples exist at once (with Memetic Mutation on the YMMV page and Ascended Meme on the main work page), or should only the Ascended Meme entry be up? Thanks in advance.

Edited by BlackFaithStar on Dec 30th 2022 at 12:47:48 AM

A meme doesn't stop being a meme because the work creators used it. The two examples cover different aspects: the Memetic Mutation states that the meme exists, the Ascended Meme shows that the work acknowledged the meme In-Universe.

(Sorry for the weeks-long delay, I had things to take care of.)

True in that a meme doesn't stop being a meme because the creators use it in the work. However, a subtrope's examples should be on that subtrope page instead of the parent trope page, even if the example does fit the parent trope (as well).

Memetic Mutation is for when something in a work becomes memetic, and Ascended Meme is for when something in a work becomes memetic and it gets used/acknowledged by the creators of the work. Thus why I'm hesitant about this.

However, I'm inclined to be lenient this time because one is YMMV and the other is not, but I'll play it safe by rewording my examples to adjust the emphasis of the respective trope each is for. To reiterate, I lean to having both examples up on their respective for now.

• Memetic Mutation: Kita Jaga Kita ^Explanation The title for one of The Movie's soundtracks, which means "We take care of our own." In the 2019 film, it's from the perspective of the slum citizens, the Pinggiran, who must fend for themselves. In March 2020, the song became a theme for Malaysians fighting against the COVID-19 Pandemic, with a hashtag and website being born out of the phrase, as well as variations thereof. The official music video and the short "Misi: Juang" (Mission: Fight), which features a score version of the song, both commemorate those fighting against the virus.

• Ascended Meme: The movie soundtrack "Kita Jaga Kita" ("We take care of our own"), originally used in the film for the slum citizens who must fend for themselves, went viral in the wake of the COVID-19 Pandemic as Malaysia's theme for fighting against the virus. On 31st August 2020, (Malaysia's 63rd Independence Day), an official music video was released, dedicated to all Malaysians fighting COVID-19. In late 2020, a short titled "Misi: Juang" (Mission: Fight), depicts the characters in a physical fight against the virus, with a remake of "Kita Jaga Kita" as the background score.

Thank you for your feedback.

Edited by BlackFaithStar on Jan 23rd 2023 at 2:07:02 AM

Ascended Meme applies to the meme's use in the work, not the meme itself. Someone looking for the meme would still look for it under Memetic Mutation, especially if they don't know it was ascended. This differs from most subtrope relationships where if you know about the thing you'd know enough to look for it under the subtrope and not the main trope.