Complete Monster Cleanup

On YMMV.Death Note Series there's this entry:

• Complete Monster: Light Yagami, once a college student frustrated at the perceived failures of the Japanese justice system, proves that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Upon getting his hands on the titular Death Note, the narcissistic Light quickly declares his designs of becoming the god of a new world. While he starts off by simply killing criminals, he eventually expands his targets to include the FBI investigators attempting to catch him, and anyone else he sees as a hindrance to his ascension. Light kills his girlfriend Shiori Akino at the end of the first movie to gain sympathy from L Lawliet, using Naomi Misora, whom he also kills. His disinterest in the fate of anyone other than himself is shown most clearly when he gives the note to someone who he knew for certain would use it for selfish and evil purposes just so that he can throw the authorities off his trail and kill his rival. Once he believes himself to have won, Light wastes no time in writing the name of his own father in the Death Note, an act that horrifies even his most loyal follower Misa Amane.

Not only does this seem to be a fairly old entry back from 2018 (albeit it has been edited numerous times), but there are a couple of moments from the film that are quite omitted, namely, in the sequel film.

• Adaptation Distillation: Light's death essentially combines both of his deaths from the manga and the anime - like the manga, he watches Ryuk write his name in the notebook and dies pathetically while begging for his life, but, like the anime, he dies swearing that he had good intentions and it's played for tragedy.
• Alas, Poor Villain: At the end, despite the numerous criminals and obstacles he killed, Light's death is not portrayed in a victorious manner. As he writhes in severe heart pain from his impending doom, he is held in his shocked father's arms. He keeps trying to convince his dad that as Kira, he wanted to make the world a more peaceful place to live in. Not only does this follow through from the previous film's more sympathetic characterisation, it also shows that deep down, he's just a boy being robbed from letting his father see the fruits of his actions.
• Pet the Dog: Light seems to be genuinely concerned about his sister provoking the second Kira. There’s nothing to suggest that he was pretending to make himself look innocent either.

Now, these examples might not be valid since I've never seen the film proper, but either way, I think these deserve some discussion.

Edited by DukeNukem4ever on Apr 23rd 2024 at 12:48:28 PM

None of these are valid reasons to cut him

All of them are exaggerating and ignoring the context of those scenes

Especially the desth one it’s made clear that he is only saying that he was following his dad’s justice to beg for his life as beforehand he taunted him before trying to kill him and the only sad part is for his dad and Misa’s reaction to him dying

Also

“There’s nothing to suggest that he was pretending to make himself look innocent either”

L and the police are right there in that moment

So it stands to reason he has to fake his good side

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Apr 23rd 2024 at 12:59:07 PM

We generally don’t propose discussions about a character based on tropes written on character/work pages because anyone with their own opinions can edit them.

We should put up a note.

Keep Light.

I'll give my thoughts after watching the movie. He didn't really taunt his dad from what I remember watching the scene on Youtube but it's up in airs of it being preventing. I think you should generally watch the film before making a judgement

Edited by Orangutans on Apr 23rd 2024 at 8:16:33 AM

Abstaining on Light

Seconding this.

I managed to find the original discussion of John Leslie Stevenson aka Jack the Ripper from Time After Time: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=4026#comment-100633. The EP mentions him letting Amy go but not the other issues I raised (the hesitation, the apology and the nod that can be interpreted in different ways). There were a total 18 yes votes in that thread and by my count, there are currently 3 votes to cut.

Aright because I can't stop being controversial I'm back with another cut suggestion and it's non other than Makishima from Psycho-Pass. Yeah, yeah, hold the rotten fruit for a minute! Over the years we've spent a lot of time ensuring that Draco in Leather Pants doesn't get applied to the villain but I think it's been a bit of an overcorrection and while he's an evil bastard and no Anti-Villain my problems are twofold:

• Firstly, he's got a best friend in his Dragon Choe Gu-Song. For a callous manipulator he's uncharacteristically open with Choe about his plan, they frequently make casual banter with every indication being their conversations are something enjoyed by both parties and misses no opportunity to praise Choe's brilliance with no indication he's not being sincere. When Choe is killed while they infiltrate a Sibyl System building and Makishima witnesses his death, it's brief but he's got a clear expression of shock and what looks to me like displeasure. One can make the "He doesn't show any further reaction" but he kills the Sibyl mind who shows him the footage and continues working towards their shared goal of anarchy afterwards. I think this enough is alone but also...

• His morality is complex, when he speaks to a being within the Hive Mind of the Sibyl System, he does sound disgusted with its crimes and Evil vs. Evil or not this may be, he does sound morally opposed to their oppression which does strike as an Even Evil Has Standards moment. Additionally he does seem to respect the PSB Inspector Kogami and this really comes to head in his own death scene, when he just poignantly asks Kogami if he'll move on from him. They're enemies but he does respect his foe's skills and dies in a scene that's oddly somber for a CM and the seeming want to not be forgotten does feel like the work staking a claim that evil as he was, he was a man with a philosophy he followed—a very long running theme in the work—till the end much like the more heroic characters who give their lives throughout.

All in all I think he's a bit too complex and to me has a clear friendship that disqualify him from the trope.

Thoughts?

Likewise saying No personally to the FAQ addition, and have to say cut Makishima tbh, primarily because of the Villainous Friendship. They have a sincere comraderie through the series and his face takes a visible flash of upsetness when he witnesses Choe's death. His last conversation with Chloe is even encouraging him that he "expects great things" from his friend and trusting Choe to carry out a key part of the plan while Shogo distracts the heroes.

Chop Shōgo Makishima, he never felt right on this trope thematically

I guess cut him. Yet another Magnificent Bastard crossover who loses their crossover status; funny how that keeps happening. Do we still have enough for the page?

Edited by MasterN on Apr 23rd 2024 at 8:41:33 AM

Page was never technically made but we've got seven if he goes.

We kinda forgot to actually make that page

But yeah, cut him

Unexpected cut to Shogo Makashima

...Huh. Cut Shogo.

Cut Makashima

Cut Shōgo Makishima

Found a mistake in another Aladdin entry.

• Aladdin: The Series: Mozenrath is the most personal, recurring foe that Aladdin has faced. A youthful sorcerer who betrayed, zombified, and enslaved his own master, Mozenrath enacts a variety of schemes to destroy Agrabah and bind Genie to his will. Attempting to unleash the Wind Jackal to annihilate Agrabah and threatening to do the same to every other kingdom of the world if they don't kowtow to him, Mozenrath later dominates the entire race of Sprites, turning them into a force of slaves that he works to near-death before trying to wipe them all out when they rebel. Mozenrath also traps a large portion of the Sultan's palace in an alternate plane of existence to be damned while he swoops in for control, and in another plot manipulated Genie and his girlfriend with dirty tricks so as to turn them into living batteries. In his final bout of villainy, Mozenrath horribly tries to bodyjack Aladdin and leave the boy hero trapped in either his own dying body, or inside Mozenrath's mind while he conquers the world.

Raven keeper and Shogo, but keep Ares and film!Light.

Edited by xie323 on Apr 24th 2024 at 6:13:12 AM

Cut Shogo

For Raven Keeper, I ask again: Did she WILLINGLY give up her humanity for power?

Cut Shogo. No to FAQ change, it can be annoying but there have been several times where people bringing up the trope page has resulted in a reevaluation.