Complete Monster Cleanup

Cut Gein and Entity

Now that things are slowly returning to normal, just popping in to say that there are contenders in Cabinet of Curiosities and Devil in Me, but I’ll go over them when the thread re-opens. Also nobody keeps in V/H/S/99.

But in the meantime…

• Slime City duology:
  • Zachary Devon was the alchemist leader of the Coven of Flesh cult who was infected by a mysterious slime that required killing to be satisfied. Taking in homeless people to serve as his followers, Devon, upon being diagnosed with cancer, commenced a ritual that involved him and his followers committing suicide in order to possess people who drink and eat his special elixir and ectoplasm, while encouraging his followers to possess several people to kill innocents in his name with hope of resurrecting him. Devon eventually awakens inside college student Alex, using him to sadistically murder prostitutes, homeless people, and even Alex’s best friend Jerry, with Devon hoping to kill Alex’s girlfriend Lori and continue his murder and sex spree in the mortal realm.
  • Slime City Massacre:
    • Ronald Crump is a corrupt businessman who hopes to claim New York as his own. Hiring the mercenary Faulkner to plant a dirty bomb that results in the ruination of New York City and the death of millions, Crump, upon finding out that the buildings he hopes to buy are occupied by thousands of homeless, hires Faulkner to murder them all, viewing them as worthless trash.
    • Faulkner is the greedy leader of Black River Security. A mercenary who looks forward to getting paid after every hit job, Faulkner assisted Crump in the destruction of New York City by planting the dirty bomb for him. Hired by Crump to wipe out the city’s homeless population, Faulkner personally kills a guy for annoying him, then orders his team to gun down an entire building of homeless.

Looking good, Jackie!

Alright, got a likely Cut to process, myself:

• The Last King of Scotland: Idi Amin is a brutal dictator that takes what he wants by force. While he first comes off as a charismatic and modernizing leader to the main character, a Scottish doctor named Nicholas Garrigan, Amin brutally represses the population of Uganda throughout the film. Although he claims to be doing it to establish peace, his orders to deport people solely based on their ancestry (people from southern Asia) and murders based purely on suspicion show that he's fueled purely by his paranoia. He deliberately cuts off one of his wives and disowns the son that she bore him simply because the child was epileptic. Amin later brutally tortures Garrigan with meat hooks after discovering Garrigan's affair with the previously mentioned wife, and fully intends to torture Garrigan to death.

Amin is a terrible, horrible dictator, absolutely...but it's established that he pretty blatantly has some measure of feeling towards Garrigan, who functions as Amin's "best friend" through the latter's twisted mindset. Yeah, he turns on Garrigan at the end, but when he's having Garrigan tortured with the aforementioned meat hooks? Amin looks visibly uncomfortable at the sight, and it builds until he winds up shedding tears and quickly leaving the room in obvious distress. He doesn't plan to spare Garrigan by any means, but the fact that even amidst his spiteful attempted murder of Garrigan, Amin is genuinely crying and distraught? I think is enough to snip-snip him from "complete" monstrosity.

Edited by Ravok on Dec 9th 2022 at 8:59:33 AM

Amin

Cut Gein and Amin

So to clarify, we can use this thread to review certain works and go over who does not count and such? Just asking as I have seen some do it. And have one work to do it with if it's okay.

So I haven’t been active on the other thread, but I’ve been observing and catching up, while working on the site and on my own work.

Since this one is up and running, there’s a rewrite if one of my old entries I’ve been sitting on for a while. Oscar from Colossal.

I also have a few EP's I’ve been sitting on, but I should have time to work them out in

His current entry.

• Oscar is a childhood friend of Gloria's, presenting himself as a warm and welcoming guy, giving her gifts, a job at his bar and bringing her into his circle of friends, but when Gloria shows she has a giant monster avatar, he shows his more sinister colors, as well as a giant avatar of his own; in truth, he is a spiteful, entitled, and controlling stalker, who starts out with a foreshadowing by threatening to beat up his friend Joel, mocking the remorseful Gloria for the destruction she accidentally caused, and ending one of his friendships over a drunken argument. With his avatar making him feel special in his otherwise bitter existence, he uses this power to try to establish control, mostly over Gloria. To intimidate Gloria and her ex-boyfriend Tim, he sets off a dangerous firework in his bar, gloating how Gloria still won't leave due to the hold he has over her. When Gloria tries to stand up to him, he inflicts a nasty beating on her and forces her to watch as he has his avatar rampage through Seoul, killing hundreds of innocent people; he threatens further rampages for every day that Gloria isn't with him, a threat he attempts to make good on and start off by attempting to crush a child to death.

Anyways, I figured an abuser who kills a helluva lot of people in a mechanical kaiju rampage isn’t worth the 200 +, especially since most of it is talking about him being a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing. So here’s my trimming.

• Colossal: Oscar, is a childhood friend of Gloria's, getting her a job at his bar and inviting him to his circle of friends. When Gloria discovers she has a giant monster avatar, Oscar’s true colours quickly show; from threatening to beat up his friend Joel, ending another friendship in a drunken argument, and mocking Gloria’s remorse for the accidental destruction she causes. Oscar discovers he has a mechanical avatar of his own, making himself feel special. Revealing himself to be a controlling and entitled stalker to Gloria, he demonstrates his hold over hear by setting off fireworks in his bar to intimidate her ex, gloating that she’ll never leave him. When Gloria stand up to him, beats her down, forcing her to watch as he has his avatar rampage through Seoul, killing hundreds of people; he threatens further rampages for every day that Gloria isn't with him, a threat he attempts to make good on and start off by attempting to crush a child to death.

Edited by Beast on Dec 9th 2022 at 9:26:08 AM

So I decided to give a Image Pickin like citation thing a try.

You can see it on The Hobbit.

I thought it was decided to do that on the page's discussion tab so that we don't have to worry about the comment messing with the format of the page?

Cut Amin and rewrite looks good!

Oh it was, I seem to have forgotten that, in my defense there was a lot of discussion.

Just fixed it.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 9th 2022 at 10:18:25 AM

So uh, could I give a rundown on Bendy and the Dark Revival? If this is where we are laying out non-proposal things and such.

Edited by Snoketrope on Dec 9th 2022 at 10:41:43 AM

Cut Amin, Gein, Entity

So The Darkest Minds got a sequel novel The Darkest Legacy and I'll be covering the Big Bad Duumvirate of that but let's talk about the previous Big Bad.

• Complete Monster: President Gray was in power when the IAAN virus killed most of the children in America. Gray used the ensuing crisis to stay in office indefinitely and take control of the country's media. Ordering all surviving children to be locked away in "rehabilitation" camps, Gray had his own son Clancy experimented on. Gray would then create Project Jamboree to have children deemed "red" to be used as slave soldiers. Gray then has a fake assassination attempt on himself to justify bombing his opposition in Los Angeles, destroying most of the city, all to keep himself in power.

EP here

So when I started reading Darkest Legacy I wondered if we'd get word on where Gray had vanished to, or maybe just learn his first name is, but nope, Gray has still vanished from the face of the Earth, so I figured nothing would come up with concerning Gray, but late into book we get something.

Apparently before Gray vanished he left his family some blackmail material. Since all of their assets had been frozen they used it to get them unfrozen so they could live in wealthy peace. The only reason we're given on why Gray did this is a character saying this:

"Before he vanished, Gray got reacquainted with his paternal side and left some prime blackmail material with them."

This is the only time it's brought up, but yeah, Old Gray who had his son experimented on, tried to have him killed and the wife he never shows any sign of caring for, he apparently left them some stuff to help them out before he disappeared and there is no indication that this was self-serving in any way. So yeah, this is a case of "gets a tiny redeeming quality that's OOC but its still there", so cut Gray.

Cut Gray.

Cut Gray

Cut Grey.

Cut Amin and Entity.

Their is someone in The School for good and evil for here but well that's for later.

Also great to be back.

So question how long do I need to wait before cutting the proposed cuts, I don't remember exactly what got fully chosen.

Also cut Amin and Gray.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 10th 2022 at 1:22:17 AM

I'd give it a day. Just in case someone fields a counter argument.

I'll catch up later today, but here's the writeups I didn't see on the Drafts page (or in the Tolkien Sandbox):

• Star Wars: Republic issues #23-26—"Infinity's End" arc: Mother Zalem (EmperorGeode)
• The Blood of Stars duology: Gyiu’rak (Mir)
• Deep Red (1994): Thomas Newmeyer (Scraggle; TV Movies page)
• Straight Outta Fangton: Renaud de Bures (STARCRUSHER)
• Snow in Midsummer: Donkey Zheng (STARCRUSHER)

Also, all the writeups that were in the Sandbox before locking: I'll re-add them to the Drafts later today as well. I just wanna add potholes to the entries already there without getting them mixed.

Cool (honestly, if you want you could just PM it to me in the future and I can help).

Edited by ACW on Dec 10th 2022 at 5:23:06 AM

I'm sending it through get help with English. When done their ill post it here.

Speaking of contesting examples, I'd like to contest this one from The World of Ice & Fire:

• History: Lo Bu, the "Boy Too Bold By Half", was the final inheritor of the Golden Empire of Yi Ti. Totally without mercy, when the neighboring Jogos Nhai stepped up the frequency of their regular raids, Lo Bu opted to exterminate not only the raiders but the entire Jogos Nhai people, even the women and the children, to make a permanent example of them. At least one million Jogos Nhai perished as Lo Bu's armies marched across the plains—"unswayed by tributes, hostages, oaths of fealty or offerings of peace"—leaving behind nothing but slaughtered ruins. Lo Bu's cruelty dooms his entire empire in the end, as the Jogos Nhai, driven by the desperation to survive, slaughter Lo Bu and topple the Golden Empire for good.

To begin with, we know nothing about Lo Bu's motivations behind his actions. Exterminating a population that keeps plundering your country is evil, but it's Well-Intentioned Extremist kind of evil. Not too different from many fantasy heroes who are willing to kill for the sake of their kin. Unlike other Complete Monster candidates from that setting (looking at you, Joffrey I Baratheon), there is no indication that Lo Bu extended his brutality to his own subjects. I don't think that we can just assume he meets the third point of the criteria.

Secondly, all this information is sounds very speculative ("It is written"). Remember, The World of Ice & Fire is framed as an in-story history book, and it's often hinted at that these tales may not be 100% reliable especially far away from Westeros and way back in time.

Additionaly, the example is claiming some things that aren't in the source. The source does not say that Make an Example of Them was the reason for the slaughter; it says that slaughter was the purpose. Final Solution, in trope terms. And it does not even suggest, let alone say, that the death toll exceeded one million. Nor does it say that Lo Bu's cruelty is what doomed the Golden Empire of Yi Ti; it says he was killed in battle b/c of Zhea's superior cunning and had no heirs.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Dec 10th 2022 at 11:26:02 AM

Someone please answer something for me: Once an entry has been moved to its Sandbox, does it get removed from the Drafts page?

I wasn't there for Lo Bu but I know he was contentious, but reading through it:

• The idea that he was a Well-Intentioned Extremist or at least has a reasonable justification for attacking them doesn't stack up with him trying to completely genocide them even after they offer up everything to try to make him stop.
• That it's unclear how accurate this account was doesn't really matter since we allow Show Within a Show examples.
• As for the other stuff I don't know.

I recall Lo Bu being a very controversal example and I voted againt him.

That's assuming that a) we can trust that the Nhai's efforts were sincere and b) that Bu didn't consider the Final Solution as better for his realm. There is no evidence that either is the case. You cannot prove Lo Bu's ill intent with respect to his realm with that.

A Show Within a Show is not automatically a reliable source for the rest of the setting. Most of the time, they aren't, in fact. See for example claims that dragons and ice zombies are extinct.