Five Nights at Freddy's Updating and Clean Up Effort

I think we should do the tier list but fully specify what is 'canon' and what's not. For instance, high tier would be Mike being the previous heroes, low tier is Glammike because Rockstar Freddy is just an animatronic that happened to take a liking towards Gregory in the game. As for Game Theory, well considering their videos include "Peach is Dead!", they're to be taken with massive piles of salt. As for the novels, they have a tendency to contradict the games. For instance, Henry commits suicide early in the Silver Eyes but in the games, he lives until Pizzeria Simulator and in Fazbear's Frights, it's stated William's still alive because Eleanor gave him power but that wasn't hinted at in the games.

Oh I only brought up the novel as that specific entry brought up the idea Game! William just wanted to turn Liz into a killer

I....do want to really quickly clarify if we are on the same page on what we are discussing? To my knowledge, we were basically updating long outdated or debunked theories or ideas fans had with little basis in the actual games, that I am 100% fine with. My only protest was with a different thing earlier where it was proposed we get rid of the stuff warning that some things are vague and ambiguous and some bits were slightly speculative, I was against that do to how the franchise works, where its written precisely for that with huge spots of vagueness we only have people's best answers on what they mean. I just wanted to ask about this as it feels like were discussing 2 things like they were the same thing

@G1

You are not being rude at all! I think there is just some minor miscommunication.

I am being pleasant to talk to as well right? I wanted to make sure I was not bugging anyone or that my points are productive

Edited by Snoketrope on Jun 15th 2022 at 5:40:03 AM

Well, the thing about the whole vagueness thing is that Scott can imply one thing in one game and then indicate something else in another game. For instance, for years, everyone thought that the night guards were separate people (e.g. the The Infinite Loops which relied on Mike Schmidt and Jeremy Fitzgerald being separate people) and then Pizzeria Simulator and the Survival Guidebook heavily imply the protagonists were all Michael Afton. So, vagueness can be good for speculation in this franchise, you just gotta be careful that Scott doesn't retcon a fan theory later on.

Just to summerize, to see if we are all on the same page:

1. We all agree to cut known to be outdated theories, or theories that have nothing to back them up.

2. In doing this, there is an issue with deciding what, of the speculation left, is appropriate to keep. This arose from the way the series is designed; it was made to invite speculation, and so, logically, speculation is needed to create a cohesive picture of the story.

3. The proposed solution to this is a tier list- which also seems to be agreed upon as a viable idea. Presumably, the higher tiers are things that will stay, and the lower tiers things that will be up to discuss and cut.

4. However, we're not clear on the exact bounds for said tier list, as of me making this post. First Aid Rules has suggested that anything made on the basis of the books- which are in an alternate universe to begin with- and that from external sources- that are known not to put much thought into what they say- not be considered. I agree with this.

If this is correct, I think the next thing to do would be to expand my initial post- if needed- to include any other popular theory I missed that is known to be refuted, and then to decide what bounds we're working with. We all agree that it's a canon priority list, but what should that look like.

Do Scott's words count, and when? As was said previously, he has a reputation for retconning and de-retconning things while not making games that reflect that. Do promotional materials count, and when? They're often altered after seemingly giving conflicting information. Does old merchandising information count? Should the pervasiveness of the theory count for anything?

(Also, you're fine, Snoketrope, I think it's just slight miscommunication, as you said.)

On that note, I will circle back to your original question and say, William being the Fredbear plushie is incorrect according to information given in FNAF 4 itself, and the liscenced information given when Sanshee made duplicates of the plush. In FNAF 4, when it speaks at the end, the voice that comes from it is the same as that of the girl with pigtails from the 8-bit segment on day 3. Along with this, the advertisement given from Sanshee explicitly referred to this version on the toy, as it exists in-universe, as 'haunted'.

Less concretely, Nightmare Fredbear quotes the things the plush had said to Evan, along with the assertion that 'they know who thier friends are' in Ultimate Custom Night- a spin on one of the only thoughts of Evan's the player was ever privy to back in FNAF 4. Which, at least to me, implies that this is the entity that was residing in the toy, at some point.

The only theories I can think of right now off the top of my head why Glam Freddy is the Token Good Teammate in Security Breach as well as what happened to the Pizzaplex and Burntrap in the Multiple Endings. Scott's words are tricky to count because, as we've said, he canonizes and de-canonizes on a whim (the Mini-Freddies officially called Freddles, Mike Afton heavily implied to be the heroes after fans thought they were all separate) and also purposefully leaves hidden stuff for the fans (that Mystery Box, anyone?) and promotional material has a high tendency to be retconned. Kinda like how Transformers has a tendency to introduce stuff in the toylines that never appear in the shows, comics or cartoons or barely appear. As for pervasiveness of fan theories *wiggles hand* that can be tricky depending on the theory and how many people believe said theory. I have noticed a few "unintentional" on the Ascended Fanon and Fandom Nod pages.

Whoops, time got away from me concerning this... If nobody else has anything to add on that note, I can go ahead and make an addition to my first post with a tier-list based on what First Aid Rules commented.

Eh, you're good. I've set up a 4Kids Clean-up thread that I add to every once in a while so stuff like this getting away from you is no big. Doing a tier based list sounds like the best choice so we know what's most important.

I agree with most of the things said, except maybe the thing on the books, atleast as a blanket rule. Official sources have directly told fans they may want to look at the books to figure out what is going on or that they 'fill in' blanks.

Yeah, but the guidebook is to me the best place to do so because it is the biggest confirmation that Mike is the other protagonists. Like I've said, the novels have a tendency to be contradicted by what's in the games themselves (Henry in the Silver Eyes and the Purple Guy in Fazbear's Frights) and could be considered Loose Canon.

Personally, I don't think there's a way to effectively determine what of the novels is supposed to fill in the games or where, especially because they're alternate universe stories. With that being said, you are still right. There is something there somewhere, so we can't discount them entirely.

I think it'd be best to evaluate novel content on a case by case basis. If it doesn't contradict in-game information, or have to do with completely new concepts the games have not discussed, it's worth at least looking over once.

Well, on the one hand Scott Cawthon said the novels are an Alternate Continuity to the games hence why so many things are different to the games such as The Twisted Ones. On the other hand, Cassette Guy and the Puppet are implied to be the game versions of Henry and Charlotte. Plus there's Fazbear's Frights which is implied to be in an entirely separate continuity, given the Puppet shows up in the Grand Finale of The Cliffs even though she died in Pizzeria Simulator.

No one is saying they are 1-1 or that they are not different, just that they are still considered important to understanding things. Such as sources straight up telling fans to read the books to understand things like Henry and William.

The case by case solution is the smartest one IMO.

Got it. Case by case it is.

The tier list has been added to the main post. Let me know if I forgot anything, or if something needs a bit of rewording. Other than that, I think we're ready to start combing through.

Edited by G1-Fizzy on Jul 14th 2022 at 11:24:42 AM

I think the Puppet could be A or B tier as it was implied she was off screen in the first game but never actually said. Glammike is F tier because it's just fan speculation and in the game Glamrock Freddy is just an animatronic that took a liking towards Gregory. Mike being the protagonist of the previous games is A tier because the Survival Logbook heavily implies it including 4 what with the drawing of Nightmare.

Edited by FirstAidRules on Jul 15th 2022 at 5:12:59 AM

What should be done about all the instances of Big Bad, especially when it comes to the animatronics themselves? They don't apply as far as the story goes, but the entries seem to be going off the logic that they count as far as gameplay is concerned. Is that a misuse of the trope?

Yeah. Definite misuse. The animatronics (including the Puppet) are only "evil" because the kids inhabiting them can't tell the difference between security guards. The true villain is William because of all the stuff he did during the franchise with the Fazbear's Frights novels also having Eleanor as the main villain as she manipulated a lot of the events of the novels.

Gotcha.

I just wanted to run this by before I made the edit. The Expy entry for the first game lists all four main animatronics as being expies of both Chuck E Cheese and Rock A Fire Entertainment's characters as seperate bullet points. These two companies became one- Chuck E Cheese- ages ago, and as such, I would say that the four are a combination of both mascot bands, rather than all four supposedly being one band over the other. These bullets need to be condensed regardless, but my theory is as follows:

Freddy is an expy of Billy Bob from Rock A Fire. They're both brown bears, both the head mascots of thier bands and their respective franchises, both one of two bear mascots in thier respective franchises, and both the main singers in thier bands. In addition to this Scott personally worked with Aaron Fetcher- the creator of Rock A Fire- in the past, so it would make sense that this was most likely his main inspiration, seeing as he's fond of the guy.

Chica is an expy of Helen Henny from Chuck E Cheese. They're both chicken characters, both backup singers, both have had radically different redesigns over the years when compaired to thier bandmates, and both are the only female character in the main band.

Bonnie is and expy of Mister Munch from Chuck E. Cheese. Both are purple, and both are replacements for a defunct character that was meant to pair with the main mascot in thier bands- Bonnie replaced Spring Bonnie, and Munch replaced Crusty Cat.

Foxy is Foxy Colleen Flanagan from Chuck E Cheese. Both he and Colleen are foxes, both were not part of the main band and instead had thier own attraction- Foxy has Pirate Cove, and Colleen was part of the Guest Singer Caberet- and both were discontinued right after being refurbished for rebranding, and, most obviously, they both share a name.

Uhh, I do not quite agree with that? William is at most a Greater-Scope Villain in the first game and then slightly more clearly that in the second, its not till the 3rd he becomes more of an actual Big Bad directly moving the plot around.

That all works good

Corrupted Character Copy is also a thing for 'Twisted Expy' type of character's.

Edited by Snoketrope on Aug 3rd 2022 at 6:59:21 AM

I could make a note on the sandbox page to add Greater-Scope Villain entries under FNAF 1 and 2, while still getting rid of Big Bad entries that aren't William.

Is there a genuine reason why 'Fredbear', 'Golden Freddy', and 'Vengeful Spirit' have three seperate character folders split between them, if it's the same character at different stages of thier life? 'Baby' and 'Scrap Baby' are also seperate, as is 'Puppet' and 'Lefty', but the Withereds aren't.

The Missing Children also have a folder to themselves as a unit. But, I feel like it could be merged with the character page for the FNAF 1 animatronics- namely the group folder- seeing as, that is also just them.

I also feel like the Adventure Animatronics should be merged with thier counterparts, seeing as they have no personality or character on thier own- barring Fredbear- and the tropes there are just focused on the design differences.

Edited by G1-Fizzy on Aug 11th 2022 at 5:25:26 AM

For the first one, Fredbear's the one who caused the Bite of '83, Golden Freddy's...something... and is connected to Fredbear because of the Easter Egg in Ultimate Custom Night and the Vengeful Spirit is some random kid. So they may be the same character but maybe not.

For the second one, The Missing Children can be safely merged considering that they're mostly known for possessing Freddy and the others.

The Adventure Animatronics, most definitely, because they have no real personality and just exist to fight. (Now, some characters in Adventure do have lines but they're all ominous (Like the foreshadowing for Sister Location)).

This isn't an arguement- I'll leave those folders as is, and all- but it's kind of funny to me that people think so of Golden Freddy. His behavior isn't really eldritch. It's just more sterotypically ghostlike than the other four, and even then, it's not completely incomprehensible by either the rules of the world- of which there are none- or an outsider looking in.

What else would he be if not Fredbear with damaged- or removed, or set off, the difference is kind of irrelevant- springlocks, and a slightly different paint job.

Well, when the guy's popping up out of nowhere, forcing the game to close and there's no real explanation for him aside from the possiblity he's Fredbear, then fans are gonna go with what they believe to be obvious.

My thing is that I am not sure the Big Bad entries should be removed at all, maybe Freddy for 1 but not the Marionette from the second game.

Also...What status is the 'they think nightguards are the killer' theory at exactly? As early as the second game its hinted that the Animatronics are simply hostile to adults in general, and UCN gives the explaination that most of the Animatronics are more akin to Animals in mindset with exceptions.