Duplicate Trope: School Study Media

But that doesn't answer my question about the entire concept of noting stuff some people think have educational value. Which teachers are choosing to do so?

Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 16th 2022 at 3:14:49 AM

Right. My school studied The Hunger Games, but it'd feel weird to call that series "educational literature".

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I'm back up from a nap and I think the arguments for making it YMMV that came up earlier are pretty good, so now I'm on board with this concept being YMMV.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

The two tropes should be merged.

That's what my high school English teacher told me.

Kirby is awesome.

Is it important? Supposing this becomes YMMV, YMMV tropes in general are like that. We could compare this to Unconventional Learning Experience, for example.

Re: Merge - The concepts are not sufficiently distinct to me.

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Re: Main vs Trivia vs YMMV - This categorization really depends on what sort of context qualifies.

1. This story was published in 5th Year Literature Textbook in 1993. (Main)
2. This movie was included in the Kentucky, USA curriculum for 3rd grade students. (Trivia)
3. A bunch of schools use this for Junior High education classes, to teach physics. (YMMV)

It sorta lines up with how precisely we are able to cite our sources. If we limit the trope to when it is part of educational textbooks, then it is [invoked] by that textbook. Being published in a specific format would go on the main article of the work. However, if we allow "this specific curriculum" as a citation, which doesn't count as being part of the work itself, it relies on an outside source instead and we should put it on the trivia subpage instead. If we go with the much more nebulous "some schools" restriction, then we're relying on what is essentially an audience reaction, as some school officials (including random teachers) think it is useful in the classroom and others don't, so not everyone can really verify it unless there's "enough" educators using it.

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Re: Sugar wiki -
This post leads me to what may be a fun idea. Shove the main article(s) off into the SugarWiki/ namespace, where we require at least country and school subject as citation (so "American classes in English Literature" or "Mexican and Cuban History classes"), and explain how the work is used to teach a lesson ("The reader can see how Scout grows, the way her opinion about her father changes from the beginning of the story to the end."), but also a DarthWiki/ inverse where we talk about how dull/boring the works are ("Scout was so dumb and cowardly, leaving everything for her father to do. The book teaches that if you're going to avert Adults Are Useless, don't do it by making your protagonist useless instead.").

As Darth & Sugar wiki, we wouldn't put it on the work (sub-)pages at all. I think we could still do so if an educational textbook invokes the trope, but that might need discussion.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I guess my hang up with making it a YMMV trope is that if a book is assigned reading by a school, that's an objective fact. It's not something that can be argued with. It doesn't matter if some schools don't assign that book in their curriculum. Now if this trope were "most people are aware of this work through school" then I could get behind making it YMMV.

Any YMMV trope can have proof of being an objective fact. Pop Culture Holiday, for example, is listed as YMMV while describing an objectively-existing thing. Assigning the work is also something done by the audience, in this case the teachers.

Any Audience Reaction is an objective fact (fans acted/act this way). What is subjective is if you were part of the group or not; did you share the experience or not.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Tomorrow will be the three day mark, so are these our options for when enough time has passed?

• Create a crowner for whether to merge
  • Merge School Study Media into From Entertainment to Education
  • Merge From Entertainment to Education into School Study Media

• If the tropes are merged, create a crowner for the following:
  • Make the combined trope Trivia
  • Make the combined trope YMMV
  • Keep the combined trope in Main

• If the tropes aren't merged, create a crowner for the following
  • Make School Study Media Trivia
  • Make School Study Media YMMV
  • Keep School Study Media in Main
  • Make From Entertainment to Education Trivia
  • Make From Entertainment to Education YMMV
  • Keep From Entertainment to Education in Main

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Sounds about right. This may be a 2-parter because that's a lot.

I see 31 mentions making either it or a separate SugarWiki/DarthWiki, but not sure what the exact concept is.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Well, definitely not Darth :P My idea was either Sugar or JFF, because it'd allow people to just post about works they read in school without having to worry about whether or not it was a common experience.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

That's a good idea, though if either of the trope are made SW they would get a complete overhaul. Wouldn't mind it in the cronwer, but I think something like that can be yarded separately.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Eh, I guess. I find the concepts a bit too broad and too subjective to really work properly as YMMV without some really good guidelines, so my ideal scenario would be to merge them and make the new page Sugar.

Yeah, it's a big overhaul, but... Oh well.

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 18th 2022 at 2:04:54 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

The crowner will be a two-parter either way. We'd go with the second crowner if merging has consensus, and the third crowner is what we'd use if it doesn't.

As for moving to Sugar Wiki, that would be something to add alongside whether to move it to Trivia or YMMV; all four options would be mutually exclusive if we added Sugar Wiki alongside Main, Trivia, and YMMV.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Would a Useful Notes option might be worth discussing? This is a topic worth covering in some depth.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

I would support merging School Study Media into From Entertainment to Education, as the current definition of the former trope seems to match the latter trope, with the only difference being style. Perhaps we can tame the ZCE infestation in the process. Sorting by the subject being taught is great, and keeping it trivia is a good idea.

(Animonius mentioned governing bodies can create lists of authorized materials for each grade level. This especially applies to Language Arts classes in primary and secondary schools.)

However, there might be a separate trope concept for works that are specifically created or heavily marketed to be used in educational settings. This would probably be a trivia item.

It's a bit difficult to determine what would count as "heavily marketed to be used in educational settings" — many picture books and young reader books have publisher-created "study guides" with questions and excercises available online, for example. A broad definition here might accidentally encompass everything in the publisher Scholastic's catalogue, as well as any piece of media sold at a school book fair.

For the "specifically created for educational settings" definition, the only concrete examples I can think of are novels written by professors and taught in their classes. They're too obscure for the wiki. In theory, something like a space exploration show made by NASA could fit. Edit: The Oregon Trail fits, as it was created by the Minnesota Educational Computing Consortium and created with school districts in mind.

Edited by VerySunshine on Mar 19th 2022 at 12:04:44 PM

I added it. If it was suggested, I forgot about it.

Edit: I also bumped the ATT bulletin and edited it to note the new option.

Another edit: I should probably go over a few things regarding what I said in this post regarding the proposed crowners:

• If we vote to merge, we'll run the second crowner in that post (though merging lacks consensus at the moment), though I'll leave out the "keep in Main" part because I had a brain fart yesterday and forgot this was Trivia (I was probably tired at the time since I've been sick all week), so the decision would instead be for whether to move to YMMV or keep in Trivia.
• If we don't merge, but also don't move School Study Media to Useful Notes, we'll do the third crowner, though I'll leave out the "keep in Main" part for reasons I already mentioned regarding the second proposed crowner, and the vote would instead be for whether to move to YMMV or keep in Trivia.
• If we move School Study Media to Useful Notes, we'll leave From Entertainment to Education alone and won't run any more crowners after this one; we'll just get the move to Useful Notes over with and be done with this thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 19th 2022 at 6:06:40 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Hello. As a retired college collection librarian, I want to mention that "canon" in the description could be misleading. It usually refers to English Literature courses, and is also called the Western Canon (or Classics).

With the increased focus on diverse viewpoints in academic libraries, many more popular titles are being added, including "Fun House", for instance. These selections are based on lists from various sources, which may form a sort of "modern canon," but will vary, depending on the source, because "YMMV."

I think the description shouldn't use the term "canon." Moving it to Your Mileage May Vary is a better idea.

I prefer the name From Entertainment to Education.

Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of "Merge School Study Media into From Entertainment to Education ". I didn't upvote or downvote any of the remaining options.

135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300

That fits with what I said about textbooks earlier, although separately published study guides would be a trivia/All There in the Manual thing.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

TBH, I think a "study guide section" could be a trivia concept of its own.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Currently merging School Study Media into From Entertainment to Education has the most consensus (though not to a significantly greater degree than moving to Useful Notes), but I'll hold off on calling it because this crowner was hooked quite a while after the two I called a bit ago (the timestamp says the 18th because apparently crowners are set to Pacific Time like ATT is, but I generally go by my own time zone, Central Time, when calling crowners, and the post I announced the hook in says the 19th).

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.