Cheerful Child's ambiguous description

In the opening paragraph of Cheerful Child, the trope states that the character is usually female and usually under the age of 13, but that age limit doesn't fit right with the saccharine nature of the page image and overall description.

For one, older children/preteens between the ages of 10-12, especially in literature and live-action works, are usually experiencing more complicated challenges that the developmental stage of preadolescence encompasses in preparation for the teenage years. This usually includes outgrowing childhood habits. I'm not saying that preteens can't still be categorized under the stereotypical media portrayal of young children, because there are definite examples of that, especially in Western animation, but they're more often mature than the average 6-year-old.

And for a trope that's emphasized as being usually female-centric in addition to that age limit, most girls by the age of 12 have already hit puberty and have significant breast development which distinguishes them enough from a cheerful little girl; additionally they are commonly facing the hormone-addled angst that comes with puberty and early adolescence. There are more 12-year-old girls who are Bratty Teenage Daughters and Phoneaholic Teenagers than who are Cheerful Children or Adorably Precocious Children.

I did update the age from 13 to 10 and removed the "often female" part since boys equally fit the trope, but it got reverted recently, presumably because I didn't include an edit summary for my removal, though I was busy commenting out zero context examples that I forgot to do that.

Would you say the age limit and/or gender association is worth keeping or not?

Edited by TVGuy2001 on Sep 30th 2021 at 10:10:11 AM

Bump. This thread should have been commented on long ago, especially since now, when I changed the age limit to 10, it's been changed back to 13 even when I provided an in-depth edit summary explaining my change. Now granted it wasn't a good idea of me to change the age range without authorization, but when you consider how long the thread had been slept on...

Have you tried bringing the other page editors to the discussion page?

No, I haven't, but that sounds like a plan. By that, do you mean the Discussions page on the trope itself (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Main.CheerfulChild) or this very thread?

As I have said in other "child vs teen" tropes discussions, I do not think it is a good idea to put a hard line on the age limit as it all ultimately depends on how the work portrays said age relative to other characters and age groups. Let's take Janice, a hypothetical 11-year-old.

• If Janice lives in a dystopia where everyone over the age of 10 is conscripted into a labor camp, she's not going to be a Cheerful Child.
• If the work is about Janice getting her first period and going into puberty, then said work emphasizes adolescence more than it does childhood, so it would be fair to not list her under Cheerful Child.
• If the work is about Janice's 18-year-old sister who finds Janice to be a dumb, silly Annoying Younger Sibling, then there is no good reason why Janice can't be listed as a Cheerful Child despite being 11.

^ So with that being said, which are you more in favor of: keeping the specified age limit as 13, or removing it as a whole? I do agree with your statements, and that only the last of the three examples would categorize Janice under Cheerful Child. It all depends on the work's portrayal as you said.

I think if early teens still fit to the nature of this trope, whether due to Older Than the Demographic appeal or a work where it's just seen as acceptable for teens to be childlike for a bit longer, then they can be categorized under this trope. After all early teens are more likely to fall under childhood-based tropes than older teens. Speaking of whom, I'd be very hesitant to put any character between 15-17 years old under Cheerful Child even if they're a late bloomer still looking pre-pubescent and from a work that treats teenagers more as children. I think Genki Girl or Keet would do the trick for cheerful older teens, would it not?

But aside from that second paragraph, my main concern which is vital to address is the question I have in the first paragraph.

The only reason I can fathom the designated cut-off point for this trope being all the way up to 12 is because it's more likely that boys would still be behaving that way at that age, especially in animated works or children's literature, since boys tend to start puberty later than girls.

In any case, there are many childhood-related tropes that have thrived well without a specified age cut-off point; the lack of older teen examples would make it common knowledge that they seldom apply (unless the work has Older Than the Demographic appeal and emphasizes on teens' legal minor status to the ninth degree and treats them like Kiddie Kids) to the trope. So I wouldn't have any negative feelings removing the age cutoff.

Edited by TVGuy2001 on Sep 23rd 2021 at 1:04:36 AM

Because of how often characters don't act their stated age, I would rather define age-related tropes by character traits and relations than a hard cut-off age.

I think what distinguishes Cheerful Child from Keet and Genki Girl (should those two be merged?) is that a child is cheerful out of innocence, they have been looked after all their life and believe their parents will protect them. It's also expressed through play and the appeal is the cuteness. Like they are close to pets rather than full characters. Whereas cheerful teenagers are more motivated towards specific projects (usually plot-related), express themselves in conversation and encouraging their more morose friends (but understand them to some extent, which a child wouldn't), and are played as supportive friends or love interests.

^ I agree; Kiddie Kid exists after all. However I think it would be misleading to apply the trope to any character over 17 unless they're Really 700 Years Old and their physical appearance is that of a child despite chronologically being an adult.

I think child characters would have a teenage understanding like that before their teens, like around 10, and would let go of the cuteness appeal and innocence asthetic and playfulness at around this time since pre-adolescence is starting. I also think that the more mellow and optimistic without curiosity examples (e.g. Arnold Shortman, Phineas Fletcher) would fit more as "Downplayed" examples than Played Straight, since they're not particularly curious or hyperactive.