A project thread for the new Derivative Works/ namespace. The sandbox for the project is here.
The discussion agreed that adaptations of public domain works are not part of that work's "franchise", and their Franchise/ pages have to be reformatted and moved to the new namespace — DerivativeWorks/.
The current progress is handled at Sandbox.Derivative Works Namespace. Do not move pages to DerivativeWorks/ until the corresponding DerivativeWorks/ page draft is approved and stick to one work at a time.
For one thing, these simply aren't franchises. Fairytales are pretty much public domain. Anyone can make a story about these characters. It's not a franchise if it's just unrelated creators making unrelated adaptations. Second, I think these would function much better as normal indices or disambig pages. People who want to find a specific Snow White story would probably not expect to find it by clicking on the franchise button.
But what do you think?
I initially brought this up here
(in terms of the Cinderella one), but the discussion died almost immediately after. I figured that instead of keep bumping that thread, I'd make a new one here.
Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 14th 2022 at 12:42:47 PM
I agree on that
I would draw the line at just another character, even if recurring
If he were one that showed up in 90% of the episodes and was important in them, i would be more keen to consider it a derivative work, maybe not entirely but still
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
So is the consensus to keep Hotel Transylvania then?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Yes, Dracula is a main character after all, it's far removed from the source material but Dracula remains important
He/Him
Since the adaptation for Zorro was moved to DerivativeWorks.Zorro
What should be done with Franchise.Zorro
I'm not sure it should be deleted. It contains plenty of tropes and useful info. Where should it go?
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I suppose there's no reason Derivative Works pages can't contain example lists like these if need be.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
He/Him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Alright, I'm gonna move the content of the Franchise page to the DW page, though I won't Cut List the latter until the wicks are moved.
Would be great to have a Literature page for the original serialized Zorro novels to put a good part of that franchise-turned-DW page on it (excluding the adaptations' tropes which should stay on the DW page). The current DW page still feels like it's more about the character before we get into the adaptations and derivative works proper.
He/Him
Agreed, though since I know absolutely nothing about Zorro, nevermind the original novels, it would be best to give the job to tropers who are either big Zorro fans or at least very familiar with the original novels.
It looks like the description could just be moved over to Literature.Zorro. Maybe just the last paragraph of the description could stay on the DW page.
Of course, it'd need a trope section. The Canon Discontinuity and Unexplained Recovery examples look like they're referring to the original book series, so if we can find a third trope specific to or originating in the McCulley books, we should be able to move it over.
Edited by Twiddler on Nov 21st 2023 at 8:57:45 AM
I've read Capistrano (but only that) so I made Literature.Zorro, as having a Derivative Works page with no source page gives me the troping heebie-jeebies. Zorro is fine to keep as the name as they've been all been re-published together as that (like in the page image I uploaded) but I made Literature.The Curse Of Capistrano as redirect (Literature.The Further Adventures Of Zorro should probably also be one)
Regarding example lists on new Derivative Works pages:
- Examples that only refer to one dw should also be moved to those pages if they exist.
- At least comment out ZCE's when transferring them to the new page.
Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 22nd 2023 at 10:20:52 AM
![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
I created DerivativeWorks.Romeo And Juliet and tried to sort the list (taken from the main work page) by medium. I would like a little help on that front.
He/Him
Thanks, Synch
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Nov 22nd 2023 at 7:20:30 PM
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
He/Him
In terms of certain folktales and fairy tales where the basic story passes from writer to writer, "Original Work" wouldn't fit at all.
Charles Perrault didn't invent the story of Cinderella, but he did write the most popular version of the story. However, Yeh-Shen predates it as a version of the folktale.
So would replacing the header links as "The oldest surviving versions of the folktale" work?
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Yeah, i suppose you should. Fairy Tales and the likes don't tend to have a single clear start to my knowledge
He/Him
Alright. Though the most popular iteration of the tale, like say Perrault's Cinderella should probably have a note stating "This is the version most Derivative Works are based on"
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Though with Cinderella, a lot are also based on Grimm or even Disney.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
misread
Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 24th 2023 at 11:27:58 AM
Great job for Zorro ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
So this page https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/RedLink states that even if a work doesn't have a page it should be red linked. I did see a fair few DW pages ignore that (i can't edit to fix that myself, that's why i am alerting the forum)
He/Him
OK, I have to ask, but how do we handle Franchise.Sherlock Holmes?
All the Holmes stories are now Public Domain. Should we just move the whole thing to the Derivative Works/ namespace? Or is it more complex than that?
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
I'm gonna vote for just move it all to derivative works
Friends forevermore
The vast majority of these were licensed, so Holmes is a rare case where I think both pages should exist.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
He/Him
So which ones should be moved to DW and which ones stay in Franchise/?
Crown Description:
The previous crowner agreed to create a new namespace for subpages of original works that have fallen into the public domain due to misuse from the Multimedia franchise namespace and the Fan Works namespace. The following options had the most support during discussion.
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Nov 18th 2023 at 9:13:38 PM
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project