My Little Pony: Cleanup Is Magic

And even if you argue the "elements of a good cheer" do bring to mind sexual noises without context, that's already covered on Accidental Innuendo. It's not necessarily homoerotic.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 23rd 2020 at 5:00:18 AM

More on FlutterDash...

"Dragon Quest" opens (what is it with these two and episode openings?) with Rainbow Dash and Twilight Sparkle trying to get Fluttershy to go see the dragon migration, when Rainbow Dash mentions when she and Fluttershy went to go see the butterfly migration together. Casual outing between friends, or really boring date? On top of that, Dashie has a picture of them on the migration trip together that she has been carrying around. Photo to remember the date, perhaps? (While probably unintentional, Rainbow's line of vision in that photo is actually directed right at Fluttershy's cutie mark. So she actually was watching butterflies, just not the ones passing in the air.)

This could also be moved to Accidental Innuendo but remove the natterly bits like "What is with these two and episode openings". It also doesn't help Rainbow ends up with Applejack, making her at the very least canonically bisexual, though the series finale is intentionally vague.

Edited by Klavice on Nov 23rd 2020 at 8:11:39 AM

Only the part about Fluttershy's cutie mark really counts as Accidental Innuendo. The rest is very much Shipping Goggles as any outing between friends could be a date if you read hard enough, and outings between friends make up a good chunk of this series.

Regarding the series finale: the Ho Yay involving Rainbow Dash isn't negated just because of hints in an episode airing nine years later. Note that Lauren Faust was infamously against the idea that Rainbow Dash had to be a lesbian due to her jock nature, and was against the idea of romance in MLPFIM in general, so any Les Yay from earlier seasons is definitely not intended.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 23rd 2020 at 11:33:08 AM

Just a note that characters A/B getting together does not negate the possibility of Ho Yay existing between A/C or B/C. In fact, it may strengthen the case for it, since the whole point of Ho Yay is it's unintentional.

Tropers have deleted the following cited Word of God pertaining to Equestria Girls character ages without explanation.

• Trivia.My Little Pony Equestria Girls
  • The main characters are around 17 years old. Sunset is "a bit older than Twilight in pony years and "age wise she’s like a senior, who was held back a couple years!"
  • Timber Spruce is 17-18, "1 and a half?" years older than human Twilight Sparkle, and still in high school.
• Headscratchers.My Little Pony Equestria Girls
  • If this were her final school year it would be mentioned, and they aren't seniors yet.

Is there any grounds or justification for the removal?

Pretty sure the Mane six in canon were confirmed by Jim Miller on Twitter (the show's showrunner and creative consultant) to be around their mid twenties in canon and their 50s-60s post timeskip. As for the human six, that sounds about right and if it's confirmed by the creators... I have no idea why it was removed.

Strange, I thought Timber was the same age as his sister who's out of HS.

Edited by Klavice on Nov 27th 2020 at 10:38:34 AM

Added those back per ATT.

Jim Miller stated "Their ages were never officially stated on the show, but my own personal head canon was the M6 were roughly 17 - 21, and the CMCs were in the 8 - 10 range." This is referring too FIM but being confused with their EG selfs might have been the source of confusion.

I can't find anything about their time skip ages, I would be very interested to know if anyone can find and link that statement.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Nov 27th 2020 at 4:54:48 AM

So is anyone willing to browse the Ho Yay page for FIM? I feel some examples are just "Pony A spends a lot of time with Pony B."

Pinkie/Dash could probably use a scrub, as some of it feels like it's taking even their most basic interactions and reading it as Les Yay.

Also since Apple/Dash is technically canon as of the series finale, should we remove the statement of them being together or is it ambiguous enough that we can let it slide?

Scoota/Dash is more a Precocious Crush that isn't romantically reciprocated for... obvious reasons considering Rainbow is at least 18 in the first season from what we know of and about 25-28ish during Ending of the End while the oldest Scootaloo gets is 14 pre timeskip. I mean if The Jailbait Wait was in play for the two, I can kind of accept it. But even so, it's shipping a child with someone who's either in ber early twenties or really late teens which is kind of creepy. Do one sided crushes count as Ho Yay?

Apple/Dash is ambiguous enough until the literal last moment and it's still more Homoerotic Subtext than explicitly romantic, unlike Lyra and Bonbon who at least got a background proposal scene.

I feel like embracing two-sided Scoot/Dash might be violating the 5P since it's an adult/child ship. Not sure if Ho Yay counts if it's one-sided.

Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 6th 2020 at 11:30:28 AM

It absolutely does.

From ATT:

I asked about alphabetizing them but got nothing. I think the current layout is doing more harm then good as it's causing needless confusion over which tropes go where inconveniencing those adding and looking thought them.

Should they be alphabetized because all other character pages do that?

Yes.

Characters.Friendship Is Magic Twilight Sparkle is alphabetized now. Double-check my work.

I can help with alphabetizing the other pages if you can tell me how to divide them (how many tropes to a folder?).

From the human Twilight Sparkle in My Little Pony: Equestria Girls – Heroines:

• Ambiguously Bi: She is currently in a relationship with Timber Spruce, but has a really close friendship with Sunset Shimmer with the two being very touchy with each other and even one scene where Twilight calls Daydream Shimmer beautiful and another where she says that she "wouldn't trade Sunset for anything in the world... in any world". Her hair also resembles the bisexual flag colors.

I'd say misuse as it's reiterating what's under the series Ho Yay page and below the amount of subtext from Applejack x Rarity which was stated as intentional. The hair color thing is definite misuse as it's due to being the same as her pony self which was well before this would have been a consideration (before LGBT representation became mainstream and they relies audiences would care about such).

Is this an example? sent me here to ask arguing that this interaction is with Sunset who's stated as bi, there might be some deliberateness. Thoughts?

Alphabetical folders (e.g. # to C, D to I, J to P, and Q to Z), with about 100 tropes per folder.

I'd actually say the fact Applejack and Rainbow Dash is so ambiguous in the Distant Finale with only a few subtle hints (honestly the fact Dash's mane looks more like Spitfire leads me to believe she actually hooked up with Soarin or Spitfire, rather than Applejack) I'd say we keep it on HoYay.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic.

Speaking of Spitfire, given how close and obsessive Rainbow is over the Wonderbolts prior to and after becoming one, I'm surprised there's no Ho Yay entry for SpitDash. One sided Ho Yay counts and Spitfire does love RD like a sister.

Edited by Klavice on Dec 19th 2020 at 3:17:36 AM

If you think the Ho Yay is valid (and from what I remember, it probably is), you can add it.

I haven't seen the finale, but in the Gameloft game, Future Rainbow Dash and Future Applejack's descriptions mention each other's elements. Like this: "It isn't ours to speculate on Applejack's future, but we'd bet it involves [something something loyal relationship]." (The fan wiki for the game doesn't have entries for these two, so I'm paraphrasing from memory here.)

Then again, the game is a separate work. It could be troped as Ship Tease within the game, but HoYay.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic and ShipTease.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic are for the show; the Friendship Is Magic franchise as a whole has its own page/titlespace.

On the other hand, if the game hinted at it more strongly, what does that imply for creator intent in the show? On the other other hand, that's getting into speculation territory, so without Word of God, maybe it's best to just leave it under Ho Yay.

As for the Applejack x Rainbow Dash subtext, it is officially stated as open to interpretation. That and the definite subtext for other parings this season suggest's it intentional, at least more than usual, but deliberately kept within plausible deniability for those inclined.

As for if that's too deliberate to be Ho Yay, I think that needs a larger cleanup as there is no clear way to distinguish this from Homoerotic Subtext unless they become explicitly so later or Word of God confirms intentional.

On the subject of subtext, I didn't get a reply to the following regarding the human Twilight Sparkle in My Little Pony: Equestria Girls – Heroines:

• Ambiguously Bi: She is currently in a relationship with Timber Spruce, but has a really close friendship with Sunset Shimmer with the two being very touchy with each other and even one scene where Twilight calls Daydream Shimmer beautiful and another where she says that she "wouldn't trade Sunset for anything in the world... in any world". Her hair also resembles the bisexual flag colors.

I'd say misuse as it's reiterating what's under the series Ho Yay page and below the amount of subtext from Applejack x Rarity which was stated as intentional. The hair color thing is definite misuse as it's due to being the same as her pony self which was well before this would have been a consideration (before LGBT representation became mainstream and they relies audiences would care about such).

Is this an example? sent me here to ask arguing that this interaction is with Sunset who's stated as bi, there might be some deliberateness. I'll cut as it seem to lean to cut unless I hear any objections.

UPDATE: Never Mind, the entry was removed by the troper who first added it deciding it didn't apply.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Dec 20th 2020 at 10:06:12 AM

As the person who sent you here, I agree that it's probably a cut. While I noted her interactions with Sunset, I think only Sunset was confirmed as bisexual - no notice on whether Twilight is meant to be as well.

I added that entry thanks for pointing out that it was misuse just removed it poor advice from a friend is all will say, my mistake.

That sounds like Ship Tease, then.

I don't know if it's Homoerotic Subtext since I haven't seen it, but just a note that that trope is not mutually exclusive with Ship Tease.

I don't think I have anything to contribute to the Equestria Girls question, since I haven't seen past Friendship Games.

BTW, for the curious, here's the direct text of the Gameloft Ship Tease stuff.

Rainbow Dash is listed as Ambiguously Bi, when the only stallion she shows any interest in is Soarin'. (She sees Zephyr Breeze as a cringy nuisance, and Quibble Pants as a friend) But that's debatable as in Rainbow Falls she seems more obsessed with Spitfire.

Does Word of God count for her originally planning to be Straight with Soarin' when said creator hasn't worked with the show since mid Season 2?

I mean Hurricane Fluttershy (the most FlutterDash episode in the series) was made when Faust left, so do we still count Rainbow as Ambiguously Bi or do we change it to Ambiguously Gay for her Ho Yay with Applejack, Fluttershy, and Pinkie Pie?

I mean the whole reason Applejack and Rainbow Dash aren't an outright couple is because the show plays in countries like Russia where homosexuality is banned. (Correct me if I'm wrong) They got away with Lyra and Bon Bon because they are background characters.

The Gameloft game, while inspired by the staff, doesn't truly confirm anything.

Also Applejack is listed as Ambiguously Gay.

Where was it stated Rainbow x Soarin' was ever planned to be a thing? Link? The contents of the link might help with this.

I don't think the Flutterdash subtext was intentional. It's well below FIM Appledash and EG Rarijack at the time Word of God stated it intentional.

I think the issue with differentiating Ho Yay, Homoerotic Subtext, Ambiguously Gay/Bi, and Shipping Goggles is a larger issue than this cleanup so we should move on to other issue for now. We're just going in circles at this point.

Update: Here's a source of Lauren Faust stating isn't supposed to be lesbian due to their stereotypes.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jan 4th 2021 at 7:06:01 AM