Genshin Impact

Khaenri'ah ain't hypothetical. The game's first trailer spelled out we're going there.

Celestia is less set in stone, but I can't see why we wouldn't go there eventually.

Mental attacks are consistently how the Traveler gets taken out, so I'm not sure why people are so up in arms about Arlecchino being able to use one to incapacitate them. The Remurian world quest has the Traveler constantly blacking out mid-conversation because of how sensitive they are to the remnants of Remus' memory. Sumeru had Dottore use one through the Akasha and the Traveler blacking out from Haypastia's herbs, and in Inazuma Raiden did the exact same thing as Arlecchino with her killing intent where the Traveler could barely leave her palace. It's a pattern at this point.

The Traveler failing to use any of their elemental powers against Arlecchino is pure Cutscene Incompetence, though.

Edited by PhiSat on Apr 29th 2024 at 10:00:18 AM

Oissu!

Concluding that the Traveler is weak to psychic-type moves feels a bit forced. And swinging the pendulum the other way, there's a lot of things the Traveler is immune to like changes to Irmunsul (or time travel? I'm hazy on that), the corrupting influence of the Festering Desire sword, and the Vision Hunt Decree to name a few. To me it feels like what Traveler can and can't do is arbitrary to the plot.

Speaking of the Vision Hunt Decree, I always found it weird that Raiden could seal the powers of Archons like Zhongli and Venti even though they don't use visions. And as an unrepeatable fight I can't test it, but I do wonder what would happen if you used Neuvillette or other newer characters with powers but no visions.

Edited by Stage7-4 on Apr 29th 2024 at 10:14:01 AM

It's coded in a lazy way where if not Traveler, powers sealed. Even in cases where it doesn't make sense like with Zhongli, Venti, and Neuvillette.

Traveler being immune to a lot of dangerous things in Teyvat doesn't mean they can't be weak to psychic abilities. I'm pointing out that there's been a pattern of them being sensitive to mental attacks since Inazuma. Whether or not you think that it's intentional on the part of the writers is up to you.

Also, Irminsul isn't time travel. It retcons people's memories, but not what actually happened. Hence Dottore still going to Tatarasuna and killing Scaramouche's friend apparently For the Evulz now and the cup Paimon spilled still being on the floor. There is Time Travel involved in the growing of the Sacred Sakura tree, but that was done with the help of Kairos/Istaroth, the God of Time.

Edited by PhiSat on Apr 29th 2024 at 11:26:15 AM

Oissu!

While the Traveler was immune to Irminsul's changes, they were also somewhat uniquely susceptible to Irminsul's influence in the first place. Hence all the visions and blackouts and stuff almost the minute they walked into Sumeru.

The implication, from how I took it at least, was that because of that immediate connection with the Traveler's mind, Irminsul made a stronger, more direct link with the Traveler that allowed them to be immune to the changes.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 29th 2024 at 10:29:20 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

The current in-game explanation for the Traveler being unable to be influenced by changes to Irminsul is that the Traveler isn't recorded by it and thus it can't affect them. Even more interestingly, there's a lot of hints that several gods already knew that the Traveler would be immune. Zhongli refers to the Traveler as a "witness" and says "Those who are meant to witness will witness. Those who are meant to remember will remember" years before the Sumeru plot. In the current quest, there's hints that Remus knew someone would come and witness his final memories and destroy his music in his stead (maybe Sybilla told him?).

There's other people who are also immune to Irminsul though, such as Nicole and Alice. But gods aren't immune. So it raises the question of how people who aren't Descenders manage to become immune (though I could see Alice being the Fifth Descender or something like that).

Oissu!

I guess I'm seeing this psychic weakness theory like it's the Traveler's kryptonite or Achilles' heel when it's implied nearly everyone would have reacted the same way. Dottore made his sonic weapon to take out anybody that wasn't an Archon, I don't know what the Knave's weird hallucination was about but I'm sure it would have downed Lyney and company too if they weren't already incapacitated, and the gas in the delusion factory likely would cause anyone to faint if overexposed. The only thing that seemed to effect the Traveler more than the average Joe was the totally-not-hookah Irmunsul vapor.

Like I wouldn't say I'm weak to arsenic when everyone else is too.

Paimon got worried when the Traveler was barely able to move post-Raiden executing Signora and during the Remuria World Quest when the Traveler was having memory hallucinations from a dead god. In those two cases not everyone was being affected, just the Traveler (the Resistance reached Raiden's palace without any ill effects). Dottore's attack would have downed anyone with an Akasha terminal on, sure. Scaramouche we have no way of knowing, though Orobashi's power did drive several people insane so maybe anyone would have fallen victim to it.

Edited by PhiSat on Apr 29th 2024 at 12:18:00 PM

Oissu!

Signora was the last time we actually won versus anything major without help from someone else like an Archon. Genshin has gone complete Worf Effect with the Traveler.

Edited by Memers on Apr 29th 2024 at 11:44:33 AM

Narzissenkreuz maybe? Ann was there and you have a holy sword but I'd still call it the Traveler's accomplishment. And he was implied to be on par with Scaramouche's god form.

Not that I really need the Traveler to be this unstoppable bad ass, I found that characterization silly given how weak the Traveler is in gameplay. I've accepted that the story seems to treat them as "pretty darn strong" but could care less for the details nor win/loss ratio. Which is why I don't understand why the fight with Arlecchino is causing such a stir, unless it's because she's kinda weak for a weekly boss.

Edited by Stage7-4 on Apr 29th 2024 at 12:54:40 PM

They got their ass handed to them 160+ times

Song of the Sirens

From what I have seen, and I will make the clarification that I'm not counting bad faith arguments, there are two reasons.

One is Gameplay and Story Segregation, which can be a full on discussion in on itself but for now let's just say that the reason why we are going with the "Traveler is weak to psychic attacks" theory is to avoid that and keep consistency with what we have seen in the story so far.

The second is Willing Suspension of Disbelief, in the sense that Natlan is just right around the corner, has been hyped as the nation of war for a long time and there are hints in Arlecchino's quest that the Tsarina might try to do something there, likely involving Capitano (who is a rank higher than Arlecchino), so the Traveler not being strong enough yet is kind of a problem when the next place they are going to requires them to bring their full game.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.

To be fair, we don't know what Capitano's rank is, so he might be the tenth Harbinger. But with all the hyping he's been given he's probably the first.

Certainly, it'd be weird if he was somehow weaker than Pantalone, who supposedly doesn't have any powers at all.

There's also the symbolism behind his name: The Captain is a character who is presented as a powerful badass soldier, but usually really isn't

Edited by asterism on Apr 29th 2024 at 10:35:48 AM

Song of the Sirens

Nah, Pantalone is a straight up Non-Action Guy from what can be read in his Pale Flame artifact, not that it makes him any less dangerous though because his artifact implies he's in charge of crashing the Mora-based economy of Teyvat when the time comes.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.

I suppose Pantalone's rank comes from his economic power rather than his combat ability because I struggle to think of any other way he'd be considered more powerful than Tartaglia

Song of the Sirens

I'd bear in mind that, from what we've seen, the harbingers are subversions of the roles we'd expect from their names. Dottore is supposed to be an inept pervert. Scaramouche is supposed to be the manipulator, instead of the victim of manipulation. Tartaglia is supposed to be a weak, pathetic character who is sympathetic because of his deficiencies. Arlecchino should be our traditional Lovable Rogue. And given the speculations about other known characters, we suspect that Sandrone is a Puppet Master rather than a literal puppet, Columbina is not the Only Sane Man but the Eldritch Abomination that destroys men's sanity, and Pierro is someone who is probably manipulating the Tsaritsa rather than trying to serve his mistress above all.

Given that, the idea of a Capitano who is even stronger than all the hype would suggest (but most likely too good of a guy to use that destructive power to its full potential) would fit quite well.

I know the game directly stated through Childe, Nahida, and other times that the Fatui are ranked by power... but how much can we really trust that?

What bothers me is that we have no examples of Fatui changing rank, which makes me feel like the ranks aren't quite so solid an assessment of power. Else why despite Signora being dead and Scaramouche being voided from history do they just leave those ranks open rather than bump everyone up. I mean, Hoyoverse could just not be bothered (add it to the pile of open plot threads) but it still bugs me!

I would have to assume that it has to do with a mixture of soft power (the head of the economy will always have the means to beat the front-line soldier) and the fact that the elder half-ish of the ranks are all old as balls, have had their positions unquestioned for centuries and never had anyone who could challenge them in all that time, with the only exception being the one who we saw earn her place by proving herself stronger than the previous rank-holder.

(This is assuming that Pulcinella is indeed an elf and therefore as long-lived as Klee and Alice).

Edited by IniuriaTalis on Apr 29th 2024 at 7:24:23 AM

Hypothesis: Crucabena was the tenth Harbinger, and the position has been unfilled since her death

Song of the Sirens

Ok, I'm going along with Arlecchino's quest, and I'm suddenly very glad that I didn't rush this.

Dear God I think Arlecchino has pulled a Kafka on the Traveler. Whatever happens next, they are bound to regret not being good at the game that Arlecchino can play.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.

So since Tropers seem to be chomping at the bit to get The Knave on the gamebreaker section without discussion, how would you all rater her power level?

Very powerful but also very fragile. She needs a shielder on backup - preferably Zhongli - otherwise there's a big chance she'll die very quickly. The only way she can heal is from her burst, and while its healing is Big, it also obviously removes her Bond, so you'll have to set it up again (which admittedly isn't as big a deal as it sounds, as her burst also resets her skill's cooldown).

Good but kinda finicky to use is my takeaway.

Song of the Sirens

some are defending her based on if Hu Tao gets a pass as fragile but powerful then Arlecchino gets a pass too, which I don't agree with. They seem similar but there's quite a few differences, like how Hu Tao has a better selection of free/cheap weapons, has no ICD on her charge attacks, benefits from hydro resonance, and synergizes with Furina.

Arlecchino meanwhile retains her infusion after switching, which is pretty dang good.

Edited by Stage7-4 on Apr 30th 2024 at 12:31:16 PM

As I noticed the consens seems to be "If you already have a built Hu Tao, Arle isn't a must, but if you have neither then pull for Arle."

As far as I am concerned, now that Furina freed either XQ or Yelan from my Hu Tao team I can comfortably run both teams if I wanted, Arle can die fast against jerky mobs but once she gets her infusion she also deletes at a lightning fast speed.

I would say Arlecchino is more of a Difficult, but Awesome character overall with some shades of being more on the Awesome, but Impractical side when we compare her to Hu Tao, in particular because Arlecchino really wants you to pull her weapon as well to get the most out of her.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.

Outside of the weapon banner and the battle pass, her best bets are the Missive Windspear (limited event from over a year ago) and the White Tassel. That's pretty slim pickings.

Not to mention what the unique animations do to my OCD.