Death Battle cleanup

Does anyone else think the episode pitting Batman against Captain America counts as an example of Unexpected Character? Not only was no one certain that Death Battle would bring back combatants from previous episodes. But as far as other potential matchups from a thematic standpoint for the caped crusader, the star-spangled man more than likely was not the first choice anyone had in mind.

And since I know that Zoro and Erza are also listed under this trope, I also think the two of them not being a good enough match thematically would be another reason for them to be listed. I'd even argue that Samurai Jack and Artoria a.k.a. Saber respectively would've been more appropriate opponents for both combatants.

Edit request for the last sentence of the Blake VS Mikasa (Season 8) entry in the Curb Stomp Battle page:

While the animation appeared close, with Blake losing an arm during the fight, the ending analysis didn't really try to hide that it couldn't have ended any other way, with Mikasa receiving no listed advantages over Blake. To add insult to injury, Mikasa's one means of killing the Faunus was considered dubious with even a direct hit — IE. the best-case scenario for her — given Blake's fellow huntresses Weiss and Penny surviving even bigger explosions than the Thunder Spears with no lasting issues.

Edited by GF93 on Nov 19th 2023 at 2:40:20 PM

I agree with thok's entry for Shocking Moments, since it's Death Battles, Honest to God, first real tie that they really couldn't pick a winner since it would always end in a loop.

I don't know whether Rick VS The Doctor counts as a stomp, but I'm leaning towards "no." While the Doctor has counters for nearly everything Rick can do, Rick still has some win conditions, like killing the Doctor during regeneration. The Doctor's biggest advantage is a greater intellect, not strength or technology.

Rick and The Doctor were equal in stats, so it came down to Tech, Ship and Intelligence. Their Ship was clearly in Doctor's favor, He was smarter than Rick, which was Rick's only huge disadvantage since he always relied on being the smartest person, and Tech is much more diverse.

Rick had the most destructive options, barring the De-Mat Gun, in his arsenal, and would have undeniably kill the Doctor even during his Regeneration phase, but the Sonic Screw Driver wrecks all of those options if the Doctor uses it, and given how they are equal in stats, it's likely to happen.

Had The Doctor have better stats, it would have likely been a Stomp, but since both had to put equal work into it, I'd lean towards a "No" in the stomp entry.

I feel this broken base entry is worded too one-sided:

• Ben 10 VS Green Lantern managed to exceed Goku VS Superman in objective controversy, at least in pure like/dislike ratio (it barely has over 50% likes by an even closer margin). The problems that plagued it were an uncreative and bizarre animation and the rundown glossing over all the intricacies of the fight.

While definitely divisive, there are viewers (particularly on the Death Battle subreddit) who agree and defend the outcome. The main dividing factor is whether or not one thinks Alien X is truly omnipotent (with those who believe he is feeling he should've won the fight), as the Ben 10 franchise itself is a bit inconsistent on if Celestiansapians are or not omnipitent.

Edited by Mariofan99 on Nov 29th 2023 at 9:32:34 AM

I remember writing that example in a more neutral, even-sided way. It definitely needs a rewrite like this, though.

So is Gokuman 3 considered a stomp like the first two fights?

I would say not at all. While Superman's given strength was ludicrously higher, the episode itself acknowledges that it all comes down to personal interpretation, with Boomstick outright saying that when numbers reach a certain point they start to lose all meaning.

The conclusion isn't all "Superman is a totally overpowered Mary Sue and Goku is sadly outmatched in every way" like the previous ones were. It's a celebration of what the matchup means to so many people, and of what makes battleboarding so fun.

Since I Knew It! is now a YMMV trope, I'd like these examples moved there (I already removed it from the Trivia page)

• I Knew It!:
  • Throughout Season 2, the Death Battle crew kept making references to the Broken Base that the Goku Vs. Superman battle caused. This, coupled with the Samus vs. Boba Fett remake led fans to start speculating that there would be a rematch between Goku and Superman. This ultimately proved true.
  • The speculation that Boomstick and Sarge were related began during the post-analysis of Meta VS Carolina, and only grew throughout the years, further bolstered by Boomstick's description of Sarge during Red Team's analysis four years later and Matt Hullum, who voices Sarge, being revealed as a voice actor for Macho Man VS Kool-Aid Man. As it would turn out, it is revealed that Sarge is indeed Boomstick's father, though he never talked to him in said episode.
  • Many people expected Dio VS Alucard to happen at some point, with it being indirectly confirmed in Sabrewulf VS Jon Talbain and Alucard being featured in the teaser trailer for the second half of Season 8. The matchup was ultimately revealed following Macho Man VS Kool-Aid Man.
  • Subsequently, as more of the fandom got involved a lot of popular matches either got Death Battle Casts, or have been teased in cutaway gags. Columbo showed up quite often in season 10 for instance.

The last two of those examples don't look valid to me. Most Death Battle episodes are about matchups that are already popular to debate, so the one about fans "predicting" Dio VS Alucard isn't really saying much. The last one is also way too broad. Columbo hasn't even had an episode yet.

I brought up this example from NightmareFuel.Death Battle on the NF cleanup thread but didn't get a reply, so I'm putting it up here too:

• Goku vs Superman 3: Both fighters are incredibly cavalier about collateral damage. Superman accidentally blows up the moon while Goku's Ultra Instinct Kaioken Kamehameha shatters the Earth. The final blow destroys the universe, which neither side seems to care about. Goku does mention that they can just wish things fixed with the Dragon Balls, but both godlike heroes destroyed a universe over a friendly spar.
  • The next time preview for the season finale is postively spine-chilling. The single most requested episode of Death Battle, a matchup that rivals if not exceeds Goku vs. Superman in terms of sheer scope. THE BATTLE OF THE DREADED PLANET EATERS, GALACTUS VERSUS UNICRON!

• Destroying the Moon/Earth/reality is a commonplace thing in high-tier matchups, and here it's Played for Laughs and the Rule of Cool rather than treated as scary. The fact that it's explicitly said to be easily undone should only further nullify the "horror".
  • This is about the next episode, not this one. Also, bad indentation.

those are... pretty weak yup

Would Goku vs. Superman 3 be considered Rescued from the Scrappy Heap or Win Back the Crowd moment?

Since the last two episode had very range of mix reaction, with the second being considered the most hated of the three. The 3rd fight, however, has generated far more positive reaction, plus it helped that the episode is clearly showing both Goku and Superman with immense respect and giving them absolutely everything possible, with many considering it one of their must watch episodes ever.

I'd say no to both counts, but for different reasons.

Rescued from the Scrappy Heap is for characters, not... I guess match-ups in this case?

Win Back the Crowd is No Recent Examples, Please! and requires a six-month waiting period before it can be added.

If anything, I'd say it probably fits Improved Second Attempt the best, since that's about a series taking another attempt at a similar idea that's better received by the audience.

fair enough

Ok so it’s ok to add Son Goku to the list of Memetic Loser? If so:

• Son Goku. This is the first combatant to lose four times including his Goku Black variant with only a single win to his name. Not helping that said win was basically a Mirror Match between two of his most iconic fusions so he was going to lose that match no matter who won.

Alright thanks.

Edited by AlicornGaia on Dec 12th 2023 at 10:24:16 PM

I'd say so. Also, how's this for a rewrite of the Ben 10 vs Green Lantern entry? I felt the current entry is too one-sided, but let me know if my entry could use some rewriting.

• Broken Base: Ben Tennyson vs Hal Jordan is possibly the most divisive episode of the show with a near 50/50 split in the like-to-dislike ratio. In essence, it comes down to whether or not one believes that Celestial Sapiens like Alien X are truly omniscient, as there is conflicting evidence within the Ben 10 franchise on the species' power level. Death Battle runs with the interpretation that Alien X is Not So Omniscent and gives the win to Hal. Those who disagree with this interpretation have a vocal hatred for this episode, while those who agree with Death Battle's analysis passionately defend the fight's outcome.

Edited by Mariofan99 on Dec 13th 2023 at 10:11:51 AM

I don't like examples of Memetic Loser that boil down to "character lost a lot of times" without explaining that people actually view the character as a Loser as a result. There used to be a whole subpage for Memetic Loser, which got cut because it was just a list of characters that lost in two episodes.

That writeup is much better than the one we have, though it looks like you're using "omniscient" where "omnipotent" would be more appropriate.

I always get those two words confused. I guess just fix that error and you can use that entry

Recent fight is out and is almost guaranteed to be one of the biggest stomps in the show's history, they clearly didn't hide out outclassed Unicron was.

• "Galactus VS Unicron" gave both world-eaters immeasurable levels of power and durability, and while Galactus' strength may be greater, that alone would not necessarily be enough to give him the win. However, Galactus has one ace up his sleeve: the Ultimate Nullifier, which nullifies any hope Unicron has of winning. This weapon, which can instantly destroy the entire infinite multiverse, then rebuild it without Galactus' opponent in it, is far above anything Unicron could handle. In fact, it's been used to defeat Anthropomorphic Personifications of abstract concepts including Abraxas, a Multiversal being who embodies the concept of destruction just like Unicron, meaning that there was nothing the Transformer could do to defend himself against it. Even without the Ultimate Nullifier, Galactus has the edge in experience, having fought many beings on a similar level of power to him and Unicron. Unicron's Dark Energon would not work against Galactus, who has no soul to corrupt and has easily resisted similar abilities from the likes of Dormammu. This leaves Unicron with no real way to defeat Galactus or resist his attacks, leaving him with no hope of winning.

Edited by Zuxtron on Dec 19th 2023 at 11:56:51 AM

• Cole MacGrath VS Alex Mercer had the Patron Saint of New Marais firmly come out on top. While Alex was superior in terms of experience, intelligence, and regeneration-induced tenacity, it all mattered little when confronted with Cole, who was capable of resisting the Blacklight Virus due to successfully fighting back against destruction on the atomic level caused by both the Beast and the Ray Sphere. Cole could also negate Alex's regeneration with the Bio-Leech, making that advantage most likely not a factor. On top of the fact that he had projectiles to keep his foe at bay, Cole had also demonstrated higher speeds and superior strength thanks to his forcefields as well as his being able to kill the Beast, as well as tougher durability, making him far beyond anyone Alex has fought. On top of that, due to having destroyed the Beast at the atomic level, he could bypass Alex's insane regeneration even without the Bio-Leech. While Alex had the ability to steal Cole's biomass to gain a power boost, the latter could return the favor by absorbing Alex's bioelectricity with more effective results. As the final nail in the coffin, the hosts noted that if Evil Cole was used in the fight, he would have an even easier time destroying Alex thanks to having the Beast's powers which would completely outclass everything the Blacklight Virus prototype had in store. No matter what, Alex was completely outclassed in almost every regard.

The final Cole vs. Alex entry, so we can put it and Galactus vs. Unicron in.

shall we also add in Gojo vs. Makima?

Decided on my own entry:

• Galactus vs Unicron one of the most requested Death Battles between two planet-devouring deities since it was announced far back in Season 3, ultimately turned out to be one of the biggest stomps in the show's history since Thanos vs Darkseid, Deadpool vs The Mask, if not the biggest stomp of all time. While both were ultimately pegged at having immeasurable power and durability (with Galactus deemed to have higher power than Unicron with their durability being deemed equal), Galactus had one sheer advantage that Unicron had no answers to: The Ultimate Nullifier, which was an Instant Win button, seeing as it was capable of nullifying Abraxas a being who's quite similar to Unicron in power, meaning that it would only be a matter of time before Galactus pulled it out to end the fight instantly, and even Unicron's ace via Dark Energon corruption was useless as Galactus was fully immune. To make matters far worse for the Chaos Bringer, Galactus had far more experience fighting against foes that are in Unicron's range of power and oftentimes come out on top where as Unicron never fought against anyone of similar power in his home universe since he had no challengers to his power outside of his brother Primus. Despite showing what appears to be a even fight at first, only for Galactus to quickly whip out the Ultimate Nullifier and wipe Unicron out.

Fixing some wonky wording:

• "Cole MacGrath VS Alex Mercer" had the Patron Saint of New Marais firmly come out on top. While Alex was superior in terms of experience, intelligence, and regeneration-induced tenacity, it all mattered little when confronted with Cole, who was capable of countering anything Alex could throw at him. Cole has demonstrated far greater speed, power, and durability, making him far beyond anyone Alex has fought. Cole's Bio-Leech would let him negate Alex's regeneration, but destroying the Beast at the atomic level means he doesn't even need to do that. While Alex had the ability to steal Cole's biomass to gain a power boost, the latter could return the favor by absorbing Alex's bio-electricity. Alex's Blacklight Virus would be unlikely to affect Cole, who's resisted both atomic-level disintegration and Sasha's Black Tar (which works very similarly to the Blacklight Virus). As the final nail in the coffin, the hosts noted that if Evil Cole was used in the fight, he would have an even easier time destroying Alex thanks to having the Beast's powers, which completely outclass anything the Blacklight Virus prototype had in store.

That writeup has a lot of grammar errors in it. I might implement some ideas from it into my version, though.

Edited by Zuxtron on Dec 18th 2023 at 6:23:55 AM