Leviathan As the Ultimate Evil

You know how The Bible often describes a being called Leviathan? Well what if he was portrayed as a force of ultimate evil greater than even the Devil himself? How would you do it?

The Bible does not 'often' describe a being called Leviathan. It describes it once and then occasionally makes reference to that description later.

Jeez, what is it with you and 'the Devil'?

I am REALLY sorry for spamming topics like this. It's more or less a coping method.

Didn't the Book of Psalms feature a psalm that celebrates God's defeat of the Leviathan? And the Book of Job feature a scene where God boasts about how Leviathan is a pet guppy compared to Him?

Leviathan is the Big Bad of the current Digimon series so this topic title made me laugh.

That's all I gotta say! I'm no expert on bible verses

It's been done before (more or less). Forgotten Realms novels, Threat From The Sea series.

In those books, Iakhovas the Ravager was the Big Bad — he was a were-shark(megalodon) with magical powers, although most of his influence was based on lies and deception. He only had power over his minions because they believed his boasts that he was all-powerful. As soon as their faith in him faltered, they were free.

edited 9th Jul '17 8:46:55 PM by pwiegle

I'd probably go full Lovecraft with the whole deal. The Devil may be evil, but he's evil in a relatable way. He can be reasoned with, he can be dealt with, he possesses an intelligence compatible with humans, and his existence is still within the moral and material framework of religion as we know it. Even if he were to start the Apocalypse, we would still have some grasp of his reasons, some level of understanding of how and why the whole thing works, and thus, possibly, some way to affect it in turn. We would have a chance, so to speak.

Not so much with the Leviathan. The morality of the creature - if such exists at all - is nothing like any framework humans are familiar with. It does not communicate with people in any compatible way, likely never even acknowledging our existence in what is effectively its world. It is powerful enough to turn tides and shatter continents, and there is no way to tell if it does it out of malice, boredom, madness or even accident. And it can do so at any time, with no rhyme or reason, none that people may relate to anyway. Complete chaos which recognizes no defense, but most importantly, no difference. Nothing distinguishes sinner from saint to its havoc, no amount of virtue or righteousness can shield anyone from its destruction. No salvation exists.

In short, the existence of the creature is not so much threatening on its own, nor does it act deliberately against divinity, as it utterly shatters the very principles of divinity to begin with. Why bother with a moral and righteous life if it would be all the same in the end? Why refrain from earthly and carnal pleasures if it would mean nothing? And ultimately, what is "evil" - in the sense of frightening and destructive - more so than a force that by its very existence undermines the concept of "good" to begin with?

This seems like an odd choice. Leviathan as the ultimate evil? It's just a big fish and/or crocodile.

I got two notes about this...

First: in the demonology of the Dictionnaire Infernal, it is said that Beelzebub (and his comrades) lead a coup against Satan and took control of Hell with Leviathan being given a high ranking position. It's conceivable to have a story where Leviathan leads a successful coup to take control of Hell as he is consistently seen as a very powerful demon.

Second: in an ancient form of pre-Christian Jewish mysticism, there is a demon called Rahab though the ancient Jews would sometimes refer to him as Tiamat and Leviathan (among other names). This demon was said to live in a realm called the Outer Darkness or the Abyss. Besides being dark, it is also associated with water in the same way Hell is associated with fire.

Rahab is said to have rebelled against God long before the Devil did. It was God's first creation, the creation of light, that lead to Rahab rebelling. The implication is that Rahab is the only thing in existence that was not created by God. While most stories say that Rahab still lurks in the Abyss, some versions say that God killed Rahab when the demon tried to attack Him which is pretty strange when you think about. Why would an omnipotent God (who didn't find it necessary to kill the Devil) feel so threatened by Rahab that he was forced to kill him?

So, that's something that may be worth researching.

What a load of horse shit. Rahab is a prostitute in the Bible who hides some Israelite spies from their enemies and, as a result, is spared when the city of Jericho is taken, converts to Judaism and marries Joshua, leader of the Israelites.

I.e. not a demon, not even a wicked person.

edited 18th Jul '17 5:59:28 PM by Robrecht

Jeez, Robrecht, take it easy. Rahab of the Bible and Rahab the demon of Jewish mysticism are two different characters from two different sources who happen to have the same name. That doesn't mean only one is allowed to exist.

Rahab the demon is mentioned in the Book of Isaiah in the Hebrew Bible. He's briefly mentioned in Psalms but is considered to not exist in Christian canon.

edited 22nd Jul '17 11:14:41 AM by WSM

Source

Ok maybe it should be noted here that 'rahab' is a regular biblical Hebrew word that means '(the) proud'.

In the case of Rahab, the woman, it's specifically mentioned that that is what she's called (which may be a name or, given that she marries a successor to Moses, it may be a title she was given later).

But in the verse in Job 26:12, where 'it is written', there's a thorough lack of the 'and it was called' or other phrase indicating that there's a personal name or title involved which usually follows or precedes the naming of a person, angel, animal or rival deity. So it just reads 'and by his understanding he smites through the proud'. (Which, by the way, in this case almost certainly refers to the nation of Egypt, since we know from other references that rahab/'the proud' was a nickname for Egypt around the time the book of Job was first composed.)

I like the idea of Rahab being something not created by God - it has those nice worldview shattering connotations I mentioned. Interpretations of religious canon aside, I'd say that makes for a very intriguing conflict - what if God really isn't omnipotent? What if the final judgement isn't so final after all, with neither saints nor sinners being guaranteed their supposedly rightful places in the afterlife? What if there is no afterlife altogether?

Essentially, while the Devil's own rebellion may bring to question the morality of God, it still recognizes His power. From his own perspective, even the Devil may consider himself a doomed moral victor of sorts. But the Leviathan... the Leviathan might actually win.

To that effect, it would be interesting if there were various cults in praise of the Leviathan - and in turn, if they, and humanity in general, are regarded with anything other than indifference, especially if the upper echelons of the Universe were to experience a, well, change of staff.