Grimdark

Hey, originally grimdark was used as a pejorative but in recent years it's become a way to refer to Post-ASI&F style fantasy and science fiction which is really serious and depressing.

Richard K. Morgan Joe Abercrombie Mark Lawrence Tim Marquitz Erikson

And so on.

However, grimdark as is just leads to the Darker and Edgier page. Could we do an actual Grimdark Page?

If it's a distinct concept, you could write up a Trope Launch Pad item for it. I think it'd need a lot of analysis though.

We merged Grimdark a while ago because, however technical anyone may have tried to get about the differences between it and Darker and Edgier, in practice, the examples were mostly identical, and Grimdark was being potholed in examples as a form of editorializing.

Sometimes we have to sacrifice perfect rhetorical accuracy for something that functions well.

Terms are also not universal and subject to change rapidly over time, especially those kind of coined terms merging two together. Many people use grimdark as implying a work has a certain childish attitude that grim and edgy = mature and intelligent, not as an actual sub-genre of works that are deliberately dark and depressing.

The closest the suggested definition would relate to is Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy.

Interesting discussion.

I'm a big fan of Joe Abercrombie and some of the other authors within the subgenre and I think it could be worthy of a page. It's definitely an example of an Appropriated Appellation which makes it similar to Space Opera in that respect.

One thing that is a bit of a wrinkle is that while I believe Grimdark as a term may have been created in regard to Warhammer 40 K, pretty much all of the authors identified with the term are fantasy writers who are basically writing a Darker and Edgier Swords and Sorcery. In fact, come to think of it, there's a story collection I own called Swords & Dark Magic: The New Sword and Sorcery and there's a lot of overlap between grimdark works and authors and the things considered "New Sword and Sorcery". This is also the conclusion reached by the anthologist Gardner Dozois in this Blackgate article.

Edit- I don't think Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy covers things because that's a (negative) audience reaction that probably depends on the individual work.

One other thought that's interesting in terms of whether this is a genre. So, as I understand it, the original pejorative term grimdark had this connotation that the work in question was unintentionally funny due to a combination of ridiculous amounts of bleakness and violence and self-seriousness. However, a lot of the authors in the grimdark "genre"- like Joe Abercrombie, Scott Lynch, and K.J. Parker- are deliberately quite funny, and have "humorous prose" comparable to say Discworld.

edited 2nd Dec '16 8:34:10 AM by Hodor2

The Grimdark Facebook list, which I frequent and Grimdark Magazine, basically state Grimdark is a fantasy genre which involves a bunch of morally ambiguous characters in dark and gritty fantasy worlds. I was coined on 4chan from Warhammer 40K but eventually took off with the Black Company, Joe Abercrombie, Mark Lawrence (who is on the list), and quite a few others like the "never was there a more appropriate author name") Luke Scull.

I've written a few articles for Grimdark Magazine and it'd be a good page I think. I also wrote Cthulhu Armageddon with this sensibility in mind.