Duplicate Trope: Larynx Dissonance

Ladies and gentlemen and tropers, I present: the laconic entry for Larynx Dissonance. And the laconic entry for Cross-Dressing Voices. Sorta similar, aren't they? The description for Larynx Dissonance says that Cross-Dressing Voices is a subtrope where an adult does a child's voice, but the actual description for the latter says that's an Internal Subtrope (not to mention Larynx Dissonance has examples of it as well). They are, in short, exactly the same. Of the two, Cross-Dressing Voices has the clearer name, as Larynx Dissonance is often mistaken for Vocal Dissonance (see the page histories for Characters.The Muppet Show and JustForFun.Backstroke Of The West for two examples that I fixed).

edited 23rd Sep '16 5:10:59 PM by TropesForever

Wow, both laconics are pretty much saying the same thing. Definitely warrants a thread.

Anyways, I agree that Cross-Dressing Voices is clearer name-wise, so maybe merge Larynx Dissonance into it?

Good idea. But if Larynx Dissonance is merged, there should be something to make sure people don't confuse it with Vocal Dissonance. Maybe redirect it there once the wicks are cleaned up? But that might be even more confusing. Maybe try turning it into a disambiguation page? Or is it fine as it is?

Hmmm, that disambig idea sounds a little better.

edited 23rd Sep '16 9:23:59 PM by Berrenta

Larynx Dissonance reads like it's about an actor doing a role outside their normal vocal range. It's about an actual dissonance in the audible voice.

Cross-Dressing Voices is about an actor doing the voice of a character of a different sex. No dissonance needed. It's also trivia, while the former isn't.

Not sure what's a subtrope of what, if at all.

edited 24th Sep '16 2:41:34 AM by AnotherDuck

then Larynx Dissonance has been heavily misused.

Probably?

Which part of Larynx Dissonance reads like that, the description or the examples? I don't think it does.

edited 24th Sep '16 12:33:47 PM by TropesForever

The description.

Okay, I didn't notice because the description isn't very clear. And I think that, seeing how the examples are 90% misuse, There's probably very few examples of that anyway. It could just become an Internal Subtrope of Cross-Dressing Voices.

Can an Internal Subtrope be a proper trope if the supertrope is Trivia?

As for the examples, I find that most of them don't provide the actual context for the trope, other than the sex of the voice actor not matching the character. As the trope is written, it doesn't differentiate between voice actors and characters, so it's equally valid if the actor uses a voice different than their own, and if the character impersonates the other sex's voice. Being able to do it well doesn't seem to be an issue (although I'd argue it makes more sense to limit it to when there is an actual dissonance in that, without knowing who the voice actor is).

I don't see why we can't have internal subtrivia. They're more to do with not wasting time and server power on almost-but-not-quite-identical concepts.

"Trope" and "Trivia" are not "almost-but-not-quite-identical concepts".

we do have a few cases of sub-trivia, though.

As in tropes that are proper tropes listed as subtropes to trivia?

Ah, I forgot. On the other hand, "an actual dissonance in the audible voice" sounds very similar to Vocal Dissonance. Maybe it could get a subtrope of having the opposite gender's voice.

Vocal Dissonance is when a character's normal voice isn't what you'd expect.

Larynx Dissonance isn't necessarily about the normal voice, nor necessarily what you wouldn't expect.

Well, I'm confused. If it's "not necessarily what you wouldn't expect", then why did you say "It's about an actual dissonance in the audible voice"? I think you might have used a double negative. Or I've just misread your posts. If I did, sorry.

@ Duck: No, I mean a trivia that is an offshoot of another trivia.

Larynx Dissonance is not Trivia, though.

If a character deliberately fakes a voice of the opposite sex, you would expect it to sound weird. I might've used different values for what's expected, though, since that's entirely subjective. I'm not entirely sure of the exact definition of the trope in all cases.

So, you mean a character in-universe faking the opposite gender's voice?

As I said before, the trope only says "person". It doesn't specify whether it applies to an actor or a character. It also refers both to actors with Cross-Dressing Voices, and to characters with Disguised in Drag and Sweet Polly Oliver.

So, someone (in-universe or real life) tries to do the opposite gender's voice, and it ends up sounding dissonant?

Sorry, but the description's unclear, the examples are misuse, and the laconic is inaccurate, so I'm having a hard time figuring it out.

Basically.

The description is kind of ambiguous if it also includes when they're doing it well enough to sound natural as the opposite sex. Although in one way that would still be dissonant if it doesn't sound like any voice that character would be capable of... That's kind of what I'm unsure about.

What I am sure about is that Larynx Dissonance fills a hole between how Cross-Dressing Voices doesn't include characters (it's only about voice actors, and it's not actually about the voices as much as about the sexes of the actors and characters), and Vocal Dissonance, which is about a character's normal voice (which doesn't include affected voices).

edited 27th Sep '16 12:43:29 PM by AnotherDuck

I don't know how many examples that would have, though. And seeing how "Larynx Dissonance" isn't a very good name, and nothing about the actual page is worth salvaging, I think that should be sent to TLP to become a new trope.