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How Would an All-Loving Hero and Complete Monster Play Off of Each Other?

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#2: Sep 23rd 2016 at 4:03:54 PM

Come on, give us a little more effort than that. Otherwise we have to lock this as "topic, discuss".

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superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#3: Sep 23rd 2016 at 4:29:48 PM

Okay, sorry about that.

How would the traits of these respective types of characters clash with each other? Would they make excellent foils?

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
DAN004 Chair Man from The 0th Dimension Since: Aug, 2010
Chair Man
#5: Sep 24th 2016 at 3:10:28 AM

Dunno man, Complete Monster is ymmv.

Also, it depends on what the Complete Monster guy did rather than the very nature of the guy.

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Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#6: Sep 24th 2016 at 2:00:49 PM

I tend to think not, except, perhaps, in some very unusual circumstances. Complete Monster is almost-but-not-quite a bad writing trope. There are places where it's appropriate (especially children's literature and horror), but for the most part, it's an inherently one-dimensional trope. And characters (even villains) generally need more than one dimension to be truly interesting as characters.

Which is not to say that a good writer couldn't pull it off, with some effort. But it's definitely not a challenge for an amateur. Making a CM into a good foil without making the character too complex for the complete part of CM would take some serious stunt-writing.

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AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#7: Sep 24th 2016 at 4:22:08 PM

A foil should be a more complex character, since otherwise both characters would be flat. The more facets they have, the more facets can play into the foil relationship. A CM can be a complex character, but that complexity is still limited to the moral black side, which also means the hero is always right. On the other hand, that limitation is only hard to work with if you're insistent on writing a CM, rather than a truly complex character.

A CM can also work if the work isn't focused on that character (which is true for all flat characters). Sometimes the villain is just a footnote in the overall story, and only really there to present a threat, or a hidden presence.

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DAN004 Chair Man from The 0th Dimension Since: Aug, 2010
Chair Man
#8: Sep 24th 2016 at 6:34:17 PM

All-Loving Hero can sometimes be flat too, especially if the story sides with him too much.

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Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#9: Sep 26th 2016 at 11:40:05 PM

Complete Monsters are actually a pretty common foil for an All-Loving Hero because their very existence tests the limits of the hero's philosophy. Can they really love all people, including this monster? Even if they can peacefully stop the Complete Monster and give them a second chance, is it morally correct to, knowing what they're capable of?

edited 26th Sep '16 11:40:50 PM by Clarste

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#10: Sep 27th 2016 at 1:57:22 PM

[up]Which, incidentally, is basically the plot of Manga.Monster. The main character is a doctor with Chronic Hero Syndrome who saved a little boy... not knowing the kid was a Complete Monster already, and then just gets worse. The work them explores the doctor's responsibility in the kid's actions and what he can and should do about it. I'd give it a read/watch if you're interested in the trope.

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superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#11: Oct 2nd 2016 at 8:45:21 PM

Complete Monsters are actually a pretty common foil for an All-Loving Hero because their very existence tests the limits of the hero's philosophy. Can they really love all people, including this monster? Even if they can peacefully stop the Complete Monster and give them a second chance, is it morally correct to, knowing what they're capable of?
Kinda like the conflict between Hiccup and Drago in How to Train Your Dragon 2, huh?

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#12: Oct 3rd 2016 at 2:30:44 AM

Well, maybe? I haven't seen it. I somehow doubt it because it's a kid's movie, but it's certainly possible.

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