Character sheets are only useful to you—not your readers

Don't get me wrong I do use character sheets with all my characters. Who knows? When you achieve that so ever desired fame, a fame you might thrive, your readers will voraciously devour every single piece of trivia you produce. They do have a lot of value in the planning stage.

But it doesn't work backwards. I'm amazed on how many people think we'll understand their characters just by posting tropes and a character description. That's not how it works. Without reading your story, they don't mean much.

Character's sheets aren't a substitute to actually reading your creations. If anything your "trope list" will only create a shadow of your character in my mind–not their true selves.

We get to know people by actually spending time with them. Not by reading tropes about them. Such is life.

edited 11th Sep '16 8:36:01 PM by Nightlikeday

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.

Um... yes? Aside from the Unpublished Works section, the function of this site is to categorize things that are already being read, and it doesn't presume that every single person reads/watches ever single series with a page on this website. I don't understand much of, say, Naruto's character sheets because I don't watch the show, and I'm fine with that.

edited 11th Sep '16 9:12:03 PM by Sharysa

I was talking about the forums—not the wiki.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.

Are you referring to the critiques for heroes and villains? If so I understand what you mean. Giving a list of tropes and descriptions does little for anyone except the author themselves.

I would however advise changing the title to avoid making this seem like a complaint thread. Maybe phrase it more as a discussion of positive and negative tools/frameworks for writing.

edited 11th Sep '16 9:58:14 PM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur

Exactly, I was thinking about all those treads that are along those lines.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.

i'm really guilty of this. that's explains why i don't share a single thing about my characters unless it was one of my editors or critics. to me, the execution is what matters not the idea.

MIA

The best tool of all for getting feedback on a character would probably look a lot like the "Favorite Lines from your writing" topic. A paragraph or two that you think shows your character at their truest would go a lot further than a list of tropes describing them. It goes into a "Showing vs. Telling" thing about the character.

edited 12th Sep '16 11:49:25 AM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur

I get the feeling that a lot of people who use the Hero and Villain critique threads are newer writers seeking criticism and validation on concepts. They might be new writers doubting their taste in characters, or afraid to waste their time on a concept that sucked to begin with, they might just want people to tell them their stuff is good, they might be seeking guidance on a character and the things they're planned to do in-story, they might not realize in the first place that the implementation of an idea is where most of the pitfalls of writing lie.

I know those threads aren't the greatest way for people to get help with stuff, but it's not disallowed or breaking any rules, and it's not really our problem what other people choose to do with their creative juices. Also seconding that it's probably a good idea to holler the first post of this thread and have the thread title changed to a general one about pros and cons of various writing techniques, because complaint threads are against the rules.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

I didn't say it broke the rules nor I am implying it is "wrong." I just think it isn't effective. Incidentally, that opinion isn't a "complaint."

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.

I get the impression that you intended the first post to be one of advice, rather than complaint. In that case, perhaps it would have been more effective to have given more weight in that post to what you advise that forum-members should do, rather than what they shouldn't—it may be that the tone of the post is the reason that some in this thread are reading your original post as a complaint.

My Games & Writing

What exactly is this thread supposed to accomplish?

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!

Tone might be an issue. Still, I wouldn't go as far as to order others what to do.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.

Let say this, yes it true that sharing concept beforehand isn't the best idea but it does help some people. Just take me for an example, someone said my character sucked simply because he was an unlikable cynical jerkass, so i looked into the problem then fix him up a bit. Another instance was when my wizard character was seen as Mary sue with a generic backstory and kinda Mary sueish appearance. I got to the bottom of it and fixed up too. Now he's a prankster that can't get away with nothing.

MIA

As I see it, writing down a list of tropes about your character is just something that you do for fun. And maybe for some friendly criticism. Of course, we will get to know him/her better if we read the story. But I say that a character sheet is a good start.

edited 16th Sep '16 11:52:00 AM by Furienna

I love tropes.

MIA

(I presume that this was directed at my post regarding advice. If not, then my mistake, and please disregard!)

There's a big difference between giving advice or suggestions and giving orders, I believe.

Indeed, I think that when giving critique, suggestions regarding how a criticised element might be improved can be useful: they may provide a solution that was missed by the person whose work is being critiqued, and if not, may spark further ideas. On top of that, I suspect that they can provide a positive tone to a response that might otherwise seem somewhat negative.

My Games & Writing

The character criticism thread is for quick analysis of character concepts, which is why it's structured like a sheet. Giving character say, a sample chapter of 50 pages for each character would be impractical for that thread's purposes, because no one would read that as quickly as a character sheet.

The Villain/Hero thread is a tvtropes equivalent of pitching a tv-show, except with characters: you give the outline, purpose, and poetic strengths of that character, and see what people have to say about it. It's a pitch. The exercise is more the acting of managing to sum up your character in a pitch than anything. Giving them huge samples of writing kind of nulls that exercise.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

A skilled writer can make any concept work. Hence the reason I think criticizing a character sheet isn't effective. Even if I saw a lot of cliches in a sheet, some readers could take a like on them.

Pitched ideas are rejected, mostly, because they don't suit a business model. Disney channel would, probably, have rejected Family Guy in the pitch stage, as it doesn't fit their family friendly model. It doesn't mean it sucks.

But if someone likes those, then more power to them.

Execution is everything.

edited 15th Sep '16 7:56:48 AM by Nightlikeday

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.

Of course almost any concept can work. The purpose of the threads aren't to shoot down concepts like an actual pitch to a business company (and even those, as someone who has done them before, are not so simplistic), its to trade off between writers what they see more interesting or less interesting in their concepts, via suggestions. Such as "I enjoy your character's perspective on violence that you mentioned on your character sheet. I'd like seeing it more present in his character." or "I think it's too sexualized, maybe toning down a bit?" and the original writer can just answer if he sees it that way or not. It's a quick-fire pitch discussion, of good and bad things, giving insights into some perspective of the character someone has.

edited 15th Sep '16 8:07:17 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

You opened the window by comparing character sheets to pitching. I concur it is a poor comparison.

The things you mentioned as virtues of sheets aren't actually noticeable unless you read the story. You can't possibly know if there is "too much" or "too little" before then. A character can be described in a sheet as being "too sexual," as per your example. Yet inside a story that trait could hold very little weight and only get a mention, a passing remark, an aside glance— or worse get unnoticed regardless of its author's intent.

But, like I said before, If you like character sheets for that purpose then more power to you. They don't for me. First impressions can be deceiving. Sheets even more.

edited 16th Sep '16 1:41:03 PM by Nightlikeday

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.

Eh character sheets are fun. I get what you're saying. But most writers here are just hobbists eager to show their stuff. No harm done.

edited 16th Sep '16 10:39:35 PM by FallenLegend

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.

I tend to actually show my character's traits in R Ps such as Arena and certain forum games involving avatars. Show, Don't Tell does apply and it's more fun actually having them interact in situations (such as that "What would your character do in above situation?" thread)

...eheh

I'm pretty sure most of us aren't hobbits. I mean, Bilbo was, but he's not a troper.

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur

Dude you know that was a typo

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.

Of course

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur