Metal Gear Survive; 4-player co-op stealth game

I thought that it'd be a spin-off where Snake and Miller made it okay and started to take revenge at an earlier period or something. To be honest, I feel like a game about the surviving MSF members would've been decent, a good occasion to world-build and it would've been hyped as the bridge between Ground Zero and Phantom Pain.

Instead, we get stupid zombies.

At least they have the decency to use generic no-names, as opposed to fucking up Snake or Raiden or whatever. That barely counts as a point, but there it is.

Though honestly, if Metal Gear's fate is to be licensed out from now on, I hope Konami's smart enough to first throw it at Platinum. At least they get the franchise.

I'm not huge on creator deification either, even if I love the Kojima is God jokes myself I'm a bit sour at the elements that he supposedly cut for time even before all that Konami business. As much as I enjoyed MGS 5 as a game, I thought it jumped the shark in more ways than one (the usable wormhole tech, Sahelanthropus and retconning a bunch of MGS 3 bosses as "parasites did it" already turn me off regarding the story's canon, not to mention the bigger examples) and was unfortunately unfinished, both due to Kojima's ambition and Konami going absolutely insane. I don't deify the man as much as I used to - he's just a guy making video games, and as far as Silent Hills and Death Stranding goes, probably not video games that I would personally enjoy.

Here's what bugs me the most about this game.

First up, the portals. Where in Metal Gear Solid history have portals just opened up and sucked someone or somewhere into a hellish zombie dimension? The closest thing we've had to portals have been wormhole tech from V, which was already pushing it considering no game set after it even mentions technology that incredible, and it wasn't used for birthing Skulls. It was also developed nine years after MSF's destruction, and wasn't mentioned at all in the game's tapes - Ocelot even mentions how returning soldiers couldn't believe that MSF's wreckage was Mother Base. And I mean sure, you can retcon all that and say "the base gets spat back into the sea at the end probably, that's the base those soldiers saw" or "it happened after they saw Mother Base", or "they developed wormhole tech based off of the portal and/or testimonies of returned MSF soldiers after escaping" - but that would honestly be as bad as Venom snake Being a doppelganger, and if that garbage isn't forgivable by Kojima's standards, it shouldn't be acceptable by Konami's. There's also the fact that the portal took place minutes to hours after Ground Zeroes, and how it's only just happening now in this trailer to sell a new game. It feels cheap, completely ass-pulled.

Zombies can arguably be called canon simply because of the Skulls, but they were manufactured in this dimension and had some magicky bullcrap explaining how they did it. Zombie Dimension AU is a complete left turn, even judging by Metal Gear standards, and it's a turn for the worst. AC!D had a cool-ass premise as a spinoff, with that version of Solid Snake dying and being cloned in between 1 and 2 - that's pretty out there, I want to get my hands on these games so I can play that. Having a portal just appear and dump you in a demonic hellscape is so bland, so contrived and lazy, that it seriously bothered me just watching the trailer. The faces look like melting butter on a sheet of cling wrap, the zombies look like ass and just the way they're going about it ("oh a portal opened up just as Snake was flying away, you didn't see it but it happened") just completely rubs me the wrong way. Even if this is an AU like "what if a portal sucked all the surviving MSF soldiers into a zombie hellscape?" that has no bearing on the Metal Gear canon doesn't justify it, because it's a godawful way to justify making this generic-looking garbage in the first place. You could make a zombie game with any franchise by sucking a bunch of nobodies or characters up into a new zombie dimension, it's a cut-and-paste formula that just feels lazy.

I can't judge the gameplay, so maybe it will be fun and find its audience. But I think it looks painfully generic, and I'd put money on the line that the game ends up mediocre at best. Look forward to it, but even shoving the whole Kojima thing out of the picture and looking at it as a game, it looks like a blatant cashgrab already. Metal Gear has room to expand on, the post-4 universe with cyborg Raiden has room to be tackled by other developers. Konami decided to pull the desecrated shell of Mother Base out of the ocean, drop it into another dimension and put you in squads to fight zombies. That sounds absolutely atrocious, and I hate it.

Seriously, I'd prefer an FPS or third person shooter about surviving MSF soldiers fighting on battlefields around the world. Even a piss-weak CoD clone is better than "suddenly, zombies"

edited 19th Aug '16 11:40:02 AM by MrMallard

The MGS3 pachinko trailer being the third most thumbed down video in Youtube history was possible because even Japan has had enough of that shit, so it's not like the Japanese aren't all happy about the pachinko move.

Once again, I do not condone to what Konami has done, it's just inhuman. Makes sense considering its circumstances, yes, but not exactly what we'll commend. But I do prefer that we fandom don't pretend that we know the best, most moral way for things to be acceptable, and anyone who doesn't do so is completely stupid and moronic. I mean, sure, the backlash right now is justified when it comes to Konami... but fans tends to think that THEIR way seems to be 100% safe and moral and should be executed to make things smoother, those who don't are stupid.

Do tell, if it's possible that you took over Konami and tried to 'fix' things with those ways I mentioned, would it accomplish both of this:

• Your trust with the fans are restored
• Your company is once again steady in the face of Japan's turbulent economic state.

From the look of it, it's like achieving both is near-impossible, but as far as the fandom is concerned, achieving both of them is easy, not fulfilling both is stupid. Yes, Konami is dumbfuck and stupid right now... but I wouldn't call them stupid on THAT aforementioned level, that's just childish, naive and the harsh world of business would be more than happy to crush it.

But even so, right now I just won't recognize the current Konami to be Konami. The real Konami to me is the old Konami who made good old games like those Castlevania and Metroidvania, Contra, the classic Metal Gear games, the Genso Suikoden epic, and lots of Arcade classics. Not THIS one company. Might as well just refer it as Imanok.

edited 19th Aug '16 6:09:20 PM by ChrisX

Why is Konami doing what Resident Evil is doing While Resident Evil is trying to be Call of Duty... I don't understand!

I think I need to post this old video:

Ironically, Resident Evil has now gone full speed away from being Call Of Duty... And is now trying to be P.T or Outlast.

What I don't get about this, is why even try? I mean yeah, the Pachinko stuff sucks, but if they want to be Pachinko, then just be Pachinko! Why try to make money of a fanbase that's sick of the crap you've pulled? Why not sink funding into their other money sources?

Survive is probably cheap as hell to make. All the assets for it exist already.

edited 20th Aug '16 4:07:08 AM by LeGarcon

That's probably it, if its just a bunch of revamped preeexisting assets, that lower costs then making stuff from scratch and if the only thing they'd have to add is stuff like weapons and costumes

That second archer chick is cute though :P

edited 20th Aug '16 6:27:21 AM by FrozenWolf2

Seriously though, are there already campaigns to boycott this game when it comes out or what?

The first two are not unreasonable. As for the third, who is asking for that? The problem isn't their pachinko or mobile involvement, the problem is the attitude towards their games.

Financial reports have been in for a while. Gambling is on the wane, digital entertainment is on the rise. I agree with your point on this game in particular, but the larger picture, to me, is that they're simply following the money.

edited 20th Aug '16 8:53:20 AM by Watchtower

Despite outright saying that they were now going to focus on mobile and gambling games? Pretty much the only hotly-anticipated thing that they've got coming out is the Pro Evolution Soccer series and that will likely only be popular in Europe.

To be fair, they've never truly said that. Even last year they've always tried to assure that they would keep up with the games. Pachinko and mobile are simply their chief focus, and given their attitudes going whole-hog is seen as the more honest answer.

I was under the impression that the portals and similar tech in MGSV was a holdover/set-up for/from Zone of the Enders 3. It was supposed to go into development before MGSV and ended up being delayed/cancelled. Given the ancient aliens set-up for ZoE3, it was likely he was trying to tie the two together in a loose manner.

That's my guess.

Konami is a business. I don't care if they change focus. I'm only concerned that they treat their employees so poorly. If they dropped all of their games departments tomorrow, I'd feel bad that their titles would die out, but I would understand their decisions. Companies exist to make money, not to satisfy people outside their market focus.

edited 20th Aug '16 10:20:58 AM by Zeromaeus

More or less have to agree. Sucks that all their franchises I liked are just non-existent at this point barring stuff like this game, but I can't argue with their decision given the current market reality in Japan. I don't like it on a personal level but I understand it. The corporature culture and employee treatment on the other hand is unacceptable.

@PES: Actually, PES is pretty popular in Indonesia... in pirated form.

Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker had portals and such too, it's really nothing new, Miller just handwaves it.

I would have been happy with Metal Gear Solid V-2 with just more gear and mechanics or a return to a more MGS 4 style shooter with mechs and stealth sections.

But Zombie survival with bows and shit are really like the only thing that I really DO NOT WANT.

edited 20th Aug '16 9:42:45 PM by Memers

Wait, when was there portals in Peace Walker?

Probably a brief mention and nothing more, but not sure in which mission that I've played.

There weren't wormholes in Peace Walker, but there were dinosaurs.

We've also had Ape Escape and talking cats and dating sims and skateboarding and whatever the hell External Gazer was supposed to be.

Which leads me to believe most of this consternation comes from the stigma surrounding Konami more than how stupid the idea is.

edited 21st Aug '16 8:12:47 AM by Soble

None of those "wacky" ideas were sold as their own game.

And even then hunting Monkeys as a spy or say aiming a bannana at a dinosaur was pretty unique.

This just seems like "Follow the leader"

Those are some pretty fun, wacky ideas though. My issue is how generic this change is.

An element of it is definitely "this came out of literally nowhere, why does it exist", but the worst part for me is that it isn't something wacky and fun like dating sim elements or skateboarding or Ape Escape. It's zombies in a pointless grim-dark setting. Another part of it is how they dragged Mother Base into it - MSF died, it got blown up. That was my base. I don't like that they've used it to justify this new game.

Not to mention that most of the out-of-character weirdness is confined to minigames, and are more or less lighthearted fun that takes a breather from heavy spy drama and politics. PW's dating missions are a pair of unlockable missions, Ape Escape had its own mode and MGS 2 skateboarding was an added bonus mode added to the Substance re-release. Metal Gear Survive is a fully realized game based on "MGS, but co-op and with zombies".

I know it's too early to bash the game, but I'm not complaining just because the franchise is being licensed out or milked by Konami. If they made a product I liked the look of, I would be cautiously optimistic at worst. It's because the game they're offering looks cheap and generic. Skateboarding, VN elements using the command system and Ape Escape were sort of tacked on, but they were a couple of cute breather moments in their respective games and it all felt like wacky fun. This is the sort of game I wouldn't play with or without Metal Gear tacked on, even if I was playing for free - I never liked zombies, I don't like Call of Duty zombies or Left 4 Dead, especially not with my friends. I loved Saints Row 2 and 3, but I can't stand the zombie minigames and even as a memey pop-culture thing, I wasn't a fan of the third game's zombies. This premise takes what I like about Metal Gear and replaces it with a jumble of junk I never liked in the first place.

That's what irks me. It's how they've gone about it, sprang "MGS but with zombies" out of nowhere, sure - but it's because the game itself looks like it's trashing the more character-focused elements and story focus of prior games and substituting them with multiplayer co-op stealth survival shooter stuff. And yeah, maybe it's too early to make that call, there's no gameplay yet and it's just a trailer. But just the premise, the similar description to games I've already played and disliked and the stuff they've added not being my cup of tea beforehand either adds up into my negative reaction.

And a bit of that is zombie hate. But that's just one large part of what I don't like.

edited 21st Aug '16 10:07:36 AM by MrMallard

The best part is. The MSF mother base got teleported out but in the wideshot at the end of the trailer it's the Diamond Dogs mother base.

They can't even be bothered to keep the setting consistent.

I respect the amount of detail you put into that, but I just don't share those qualms, and I still think the majority are more offended by the fact that this is Konami instead of Kojima.

Kojima can troll the crap out of the fanbase and sell a prologue as a video game and we'll still buy it - because it's Kojima. Kojima can pretend to pass on the series several times - because he's Hideo Kojima. Anybody else and that's probably career suicide. If Kojima had thrown zombies at us, we'd say "That's weird but I'm sure Kojima has some wacky twist in store for us!"

Everyone was pissy when Raiden became the main protagonist but suddenly he's a ninja and everyone's like "okay." I don't think there's any resistance to wacky, generic ideas being infused into this series. When Metal Gear became another fast, hack and slash it's fine because it's a good hack and slash - people gave it a chance and viola, a hyper, actiony Metal Gear game isn't that bad.

I disagree with applying "grimdark" just because there's zombies and a post-apocalyptic setting. We don't know what this game's tone will be.

No argument here.

edited 21st Aug '16 9:18:17 PM by Soble

I've spent all weekend pouring over articles based off Metal Gear Survive, to include Richard Jones (Metal Gear's Brand Manager), having to put out fires all over the place.

It looks like they trying out Co-op without affecting the core series. As if to say 'Hey, try this out. It's stealth action and co-op. Do you like the mechanics?'

I think the whole Metal Gear: Left 4 Dead is a run at trying to build a quick tech-demo off a fairly safe genre. If anything, I'm really hoping this will put a nail in the 'zombie survival game' coffin so we can all move on with our lives.

Now, as to the whole 'Wormholes opening up for some reason', I think this could be a safer way to say 'Plot Spoilers'.

Then again,I might be giving them more credit than they probably deserve. Still, I've wanted to see Co-Op in a Metal Gear game, and I've wanted a Metal Gear game that wasn't written by Kojima since Metal Gear Solid 2.

I guess I got my wish. Take note everyone, you really do need to be careful what you wish for.