Needs Help: Wham Line

This trope and its 20 sub example pages have a massive Zero Context problem. They're all quotes with no context why they fit the trope. I would comment them out but that would leave several pages blank which has me wondering whether there needs to be this many sub pages.

This really has some terrible problems with context. It looks like it got split for length when it really needed cleaning.

I was just thinking about this one the other day, since a page I occasionally edit has a lot of those that are pretty much just quotes without any explanation. Some of them make sense on their own, but a lot of them will only make sense to people familiar with the show or Dungeons And Dragons, and I like examples to make sense without requiring any further research on the part of the reader (even if it's explained elsewhere on the same page).

My inclination would be to say to comment out ZCEs as appropriate, and in the event doing so blanks an entire subpage, to have that subpage cutlisted and trust Wiki Magic to ensure that any actually valid examples will get added back sooner or later. It's the sort of trope that tends to be subject to massive shoehorning anyway and could probably use a good cull.

I'm not sure what to do here. On one hand zcs's are almost always bad style. Context or cutting should be the fix. But on the other hand, adding too much context to these could overwhelm the impact of the wham line.

A wham line should be just that, a wham that hits the audience out of left field. It is emotional, and often reframes an entire story. But I'm afraid too much context might lessen the "wham".

There also the point where a wham line is often a spoiler by default. Eh.

I can't see how any example of this trope explained correctly would be more than a couple sentences so there's no excuse for ZC Es.

I agree. Good context should be concise. I'm just concerned if there's a big cleanup coming up it uses a fine hand.

edited 22nd Jun '16 6:16:10 PM by pokedude10

Um, how can context lessen the Wham? You'd have an equal amount just watching or reading the work in question, so if context actually did that, then it wouldn't BE a Wham Line to begin with.

Without context, most wham lines come across as limp. If I can't figure out why the line is shocking, then the line is not shocking.

Yeah, I have to agree, a Wham Line that's just the quote is nothing. There is no impact. There is no sudden oohing and ahhing. It might as well be gibberish for how little it's felt. It needs that context to provide the impact.

Some I think people feel are self explanatory like 'You Are Already Dead' but it would be nice to have context for it anyway as an example write up.

Things like

• Ai to Yuuki no Pig Girl Tonde Buurin, episode 50:
  Karin: I am Super Pig!

Personally every example should be written as if the reader has never actually seen the work.

I would probably shuffle all the ZC Es to the discussion page and add a line like "Context is required when adding an example" warning just above the examples with a note saying "all Zero Context Examples have been moved to the discussion page, feel free to add them back with some context."

edited 25th Jun '16 6:29:08 PM by Memers

That would work. I like chucking it all on the discussion page. It would also let us cut all the pages that are 100% ZCE.

Actually, no one but the person who made it can edit a discussion page's post right?

That would be a pain for any Drive By Troper to just add back the examples they know and not end up with dupes for particularly problematic pages like this one, just glancing at the anime page and the ZC Es are staggering.

Maybe a sandbox page or its own namespace for the dumping ground and let people edit off what they add back with context.

I am against cutting pages altogether though.

edited 25th Jun '16 7:16:44 PM by Memers

I think that all ZCE examples should be moved to Sandbox.Wham Line. Then editors can be sent there to browse some wham lines they can add context for.

Add to that a warning at the bottom of the description: All examples provided without context will be towed. And I think that is all the action required.

Agreed.

One thing I've seen scattered around is using the note markup for the explanation, similar to what the memes pages do. I changed The Stormlight Archive lines on Wham Line.Literature to use that a while back.

edited 26th Jun '16 8:14:19 AM by Discar

Context in a note feature is still context. It's not ideal, but I won't send it back to the sandbox limbo.

I wasn't saying you would. I was suggesting it as a possible way to format the pages, if people are really so against having context just sitting out there in the open.

Note markup is for optional content only. Context necessary to understand why the wham line is a wham line is not optional. Fan Myopia is really out of control on this one.

"Luke, I am your father."^note Darth Vader is the antagonist and Luke is protagonist, and really hates the former for killing his father.

Is not a wham line. Who is the speaker? Why is being someone's father a big deal?

I've been going through a lot of pages and even most of examples with context (which is a small amount) seem like shoehorning because the line being said is either foreshadowed or the result of a surprise scene or conversation.

The best thing to do, imo, is just salvage what we can just cut the rest. I highly doubt most of these contextless examples are even correct and moving them to a sandbox or discussion will just encourage people to "fix" (shoehorn) them back to the page.

Crowner is now hooked.

seems like everyone says yes to the proposed idea

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Sandbox/WhamLine

is that what you mean by moving to the sandbox?

Yes, relocate any ZCEs into that subpage.

Could really use some help with the anime, film and videogame pages.