Jessica Jones

Except Jessica isn't rational. How can she be? Her life was already pretty f'ed up before Kilgrave, and Kilgrave turned all of her already existing baggage Up To Eleven. How would anyone in that situation be able to make truly rational decisions without being written in an unrealistic way?

Two words: know thyself. Irrationality is predictable. Take countermeasures to your own stupidities and compulsions in advance. Which leads us to two more words: seek help. Support networks and proper counseling are the best way to prevent yourself from making avoidable mistakes.

edited 29th Nov '15 10:21:54 AM by TheHandle

Easier said than done.

I know, but you've got to at least try.

Except that you'd need to be aware enough to make those rational decisions of seeking help and counter-measuring your own compulsions in the first place, and as Jessica is now, she is just unable to do it.

No offense, but from the look of things, it seems that you'd just prefer a well-adjusted main character without a lot of baggage who makes perfectly rational decisions. And that's just not what Jessica is.

edited 29th Nov '15 10:33:35 AM by kkhohoho

I tell you what, whoever the villains or antagonists are in the second season, it's going to take a lot to top the sheer creepiness and personal weight that Kilgrave brings to the table.

The Netflix shows have so far had some of the best antagonists in the entire MCU.

edited 29th Nov '15 10:46:46 AM by KnownUnknown

Look, she went and seduced the guy whose wife she killed. That says 'stupid' in blinking neon letters. I'm not asking for perfect rationality, I'm asking for basic wisdom.

So, people who are clearly mentally ill are the current theme of Netflix Marvel adaptations? I can dig it.

edited 29th Nov '15 10:55:02 AM by TheHandle

She couldn't help herself. She needed some sort of release, some sort of comfort, and who better to give it than a strong, good-looking person who just happened to be superpowered? She couldn't resist, even knowing that he was the husband of the woman she killed.

As my old theater teacher told me on numerous occasions, 'the heart knows reasons that reason does not know.'

edited 29th Nov '15 11:04:55 AM by kkhohoho

That's from Blaise Pascal. He invented the calculator at age 19. Smart guy. But my reply to him is: "Psychology." My response to Jessica, in this case, is "You want comfort from that guy? How exactly do you plan to ever be comfortable around him? Have you thought of the utterly predictable guilt you'd feel after? How about instead you get some warm chocolate, sweet ice cream, and delicious therapy?"

As far as I can tell, it was plain old stalking. It's a wonder Kilgore didn't tease her about it, but that guy has the self-awareness of a half-brick in a sock.

edited 29th Nov '15 11:03:41 AM by TheHandle

Why was Jess keeping tabs on Luke anyway at the beginning of the series?

edited 29th Nov '15 11:02:06 AM by DeathsApprentice

That's the point. She isn't thinking. She's not well adjusted enough to even think of getting therapy. She is acting as someone who was actually in a real life situation equivalent to hers would act. As far as I can tell, you would just rather have a type of person other than who Jessica is be the be protagonist. Because if she did what you wanted her to do, she wouldn't be Jessica Jones. She'd be some other sort of character entirely.

She was seeing someone, thought it was stupid then stopped. Which hits home for me.

Guilt.

If that's Jessica Jones' essential feature as a character, then I'm really not interested in following her stories. You make it sound like she's completely hopeless and will never grow, heal, or improve.

Actually, she does heal, grow, and improve. She does finally start getting her head out of her arse and opening up in the final episode. It's just that, like in real life, it took her a long time to do so.

edited 29th Nov '15 11:41:58 AM by kkhohoho

Well, let me know next season if she doesn't suffer from Aesop Amnesia. Perhaps then I might find her tolerable.

I'd say her more foolish decisions made sense in regards to her character and what she's been through. Sometimes there's no nemesis more potent than oneself.

edited 29th Nov '15 12:58:23 PM by nervmeister

"I think it's an awful and stupid decision but it's clearly not something she's ready for yet."

Not only that but therapy isn't always for everyone. Call it unhealthy, but I've seen people react pretty negatively to the concept of therapy; singular or group, for both valid and rather irrational reasons. But I would like to pose that therapy is not always the way to healing for everyone.

This entire show is about abuse; why it happens, how it happens, who does it and who is victim to it, and how people grow and heal or don't in the event of it. It just uses superheroes and si-fi and neo-noir to tell that. Is it a pretty picture? No. In fact, Trish is probably the only character that would be considered 'healthy' by any means and there's a lot to argue that she's just as wounded as everyone else and simply better at hiding it.

Jessica is hurt. Luke is hurting. Malcolm is hurting. They all respond to that hurt differently. Luke pretty much cuts Jessica out of his life and removes himself from the situation. Jessica feels conflicted amount of guilt and some level of desire to correct the problem and impulses to be selfish and do what she needs (in the moment) with conflict between all of those emotions. Malcolm genuinely tries to help others through where he himself is hurting and tries everything to make up for the hurt he caused in others.

The needle tears a hole
The old familiar pain
Tried to kill it
All away
But I remember
Everything...

I just finished this today. I still feel jittery.

Doesn't it feel great.

It was a hell of a trip.

Very tense. I never tried to watch more than two episodes a day until I finished the last four today.

I know, right? I thought I would finish it quick, like I did with Daredevil (maybe by Monday), but it took longer because I kept having to take breaks between episodes (or in the middle of the episodes) to relax.

Anyway, all that discussion with The Handle got me thinking. Jessica is a jerk. A Jerk with a Heart of Gold, but still a jerk. She is rude and abrasive and unapologetic about it. That is not a strange concept for a protagonist. Jerk with a Heart of Gold(JWHG for short) is a common hero type. In the MCU Tony Stark is the most visible example, but Hunter and Howard are also clear TV examples. Since these are protagonists, they are all meant to be likable.

The thing is, however, in most cases, the JWHG is meant to be likable not in spite of their jerkness, but because of it. The JWHG trope is something that gives them charm. Tony constant sarcasm and arrogance is not meant to be annoying, it is meant to be edearing. Not Jessica, though. She is at her worst when she is being a jerk. Seeing her mistreat Malcolm, dismiss the therapy group and lie to Luke is not charming, it is grating. What do make her likable is she sweet talking Hope in the first episode, her relationship with Trish and she opening up to Luke. In her case, her flaws are meant to be something dislikeable, but overcome by her positive atributes. I kinda like that concept.

edited 29th Nov '15 4:54:20 PM by Heatth

I rather liked Jess's jerkish sarcasm, but that is an interesting observation.

Hit the nail on the head