Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

A work can be libertarian in some ways and not in others. It's a spectrum. And corporations and big government aren't exactly the same, but they're both ways of centralizing power in the hands of the few, and that's what the rugged individualism of Star Wars finds inherently suspicious.

edited 22nd Feb '17 8:28:20 AM by Unsung

Honestly, I don't want to reduce their powers. I want to reduce the NEED for them period. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen. Humanity as a species (not humans as individuals. There's a big difference between individuals and the species itself.) is spineless. I'm not saying this as an insult, I'm saying it as fact. There's no frame along which humanity grows. We're water. Whatever can physically be done, we will do. Period. There's too many of us not to, and we are far too free to avoid it. There's morals, sure, but those are NOT Universals. Different people have different ideas on what's right and wrong, and that clash means everyone's going to get abused.

So we get Star Wars, where a relative handful of people drag the Galaxy around on their backs because it doesn't have any legs under it to get it walking on its own.

Strong individuals determining the course of history is basically why Star Wars dislikes any small group of those individuals from gaining too much power. Ruggedness as opposed to increasing centralization, individualism as opposed to deferring all responsibility to a higher authority. You need some centralized authority to prevent other states from forming elsewhere and walking all over you, but the ideal is that you strictly limit that body to what it needs to be functional, to protect your borders and keep down crime.

It might be optimistic to assume that works, but then again it depends on the time we live in. People are capable of greater autonomy and independence if the culture they live in promotes those values.

I wouldn't call humans spineless, so much as egocentric. Read Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes. Basically, everyone thinks they deserve everything. All the land, all the resources, all the power, and that, in all things, "what's yours should be mine." Property, authority, safety, and life is always fleeting because pretty much everything is acquired by the sword or the gun. To prevent a society from being this barbaric Playground For Evil, government exists, and all government exists to curtail freedom because law delineates what's allowed and not allowed.

Who owns this land? This guy who has the deed. Who decides that the deed is good? The government. Who decides who can own the deed? The government. Who is rich? Whoever has the most assets. How is that quantified? Through money. What is money? What the government says it is.What gives it worth? Precious metals in some cases, which in that case is largely government property in the form of reserves, or by the government's fiat. This system doesn't have to be a dictatorship; it can be a democracy, but rule of law means you can't just take someone's stuff because you think it should belong to you, for example. I prefer Big Democracy; at the end of the day, without government, the strong and the weak will still exist, but the weak won't have any recourse.

edited 22nd Feb '17 8:46:38 AM by CrimsonZephyr

I'm sure the NR will be fine at the end of the trilogy.

Indeed.

I'm wondering how they'll handle Fisher's death in IX. Obviously write her out off-screen. Just a question of how the Resistance handles her being out of the picture.

I wonder if Leia will die with her?

If Leia dies, I hope her reputation in the NR is rehabilitated posthumously in the NR. Better yet, I hope she reconciles with the government she helped build before that happens.

I think, ideally, they should do a book or something for Leia's last adventure. Hopefully including that and a lot of good old-fashioned action too.

I still think they should have her go out in a blaze of glory.

Don't know if I necessarily want this to be part of that "blaze of glory", but I'd really like to see Leia use a Lightsaber at some point. Because while I'm sure she has in at least one EU story, I don't think believe she has as of yet in the movies proper, and that's something that needs remedying.

In the Legends continuity she became a Jedi and AFAIK her biggest accomplishment in her Jedi career was taking out a Dark Jedi Hutt. Oh and giving birth to Darth Caedus.

I honestly think that Leia might be recast. In some cases, I could even see myself being for it.

There's supposed to be a reunion/confrontation between Leia and Kylo Ren in Episode 9 and that's too good of an idea to not be done, honestly.

edited 22nd Feb '17 10:00:29 AM by higherbrainpattern

I personally think that there may be some sort of hand-wave in IX about how she tried to keep herself going after Han died but ended up dying of grief.

No thank you. That's not how someone like Leia should go out.

Keep Leia, but have her in disguise as Bossk for the entire movie.

I'd think it would more due to stress of trying to run an open war on top of her family problems.

Keeping Leia in disguise as Bossk for the entire movie would be the greatest thing ever. I know everyone knows you meant Boussh, but still.

At most, she could pull a Kenobi and not only die in a blaze of glory, but get at least one line as a voice-only Force ghost, even if it's stock sound from the holiday special. Any actual recasting would be too controversial at this point. And a full Force ghost at the end of IX, much like in ROTJ, would be a respectable way to go, all things considered.

You can always have Kylo confront her memory rather than actually her. Like after her presumable demise Kylo, at some point in Episode IX, just looks at a hologram of her and shouts at her, having a one-sided debate like the scene originally would have except without Leia's portion just to highlight his mental instability. Kylo's mental health is already on a downward spiral, having him rant to a hologram of Leia wouldn't be out of the question.

edited 22nd Feb '17 11:13:04 AM by Gaon

I kind of suspect that Leia wasn't meant to have that big of a role in VIII. If VII was "Han's film", and VIII is blatantly "Luke's film", then I wonder if IX was supposed to be "Leia's film", which is why Carrie's death was such an issue for Lucasfilm, after of course the tragedy itself. The whole Kylo scene lines up with that.

I think the best (or least bad) way would be for Leia have an off-screen death between 8 and 9, but that death serves as a catalyst for the events of the movie as a whole.

That way while she wouldn't be in Episode 9, her presence would be felt throughout the film.

Of course this all assumes that her story isn't already wrapped up in Episode 8. It's a near certainty that the reason Lucasfilm was able to so quickly deny rumors that they would be recreating her with CGI is that they had already reached a final decision on how to move forward. While I will stress that this is not the only possibility, it is very possible that the reason for this is that Leia was never going tobe in Episode 9 to begin with.

THR was reporting that Leia was supposed to be an even bigger part of Episode 9 than even in Episode 8 or TFA, and that a big part of Episode 9 was supposed to be a confrontation between Leia and Kylo Ren.

edited 22nd Feb '17 1:44:06 PM by higherbrainpattern

Maybe they could replace it with Anakin's Force Ghost? I'm actually pretty interested to see if Hayden would be less narmy under a different director.