Field Marshal of Cracked
guns man... they're fucking dangerous
advancing the front into TV Tropes
Jupiterian Local
The issue there isn't gun safety or gun culture, it's a child with serious issues. He quite clearly and deliberately killed someone. The guns should have been locked up somewhere the kid couldn't get access to them, but the primary issue there is that the kid decided to murder someone. If you make the decision to kill someone, then the weapon you use is secondary; he could have done the same thing with a knife, if he wanted.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
The Mod with the Migraine
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It's equally worrying to me that the first response from the family was to lie to the police to try and cover it up.
V
So are people, even without a physical weapon.
Field Marshal of Cracked
kid wouldn't have been able to do it without a gun, and why the hell was it somewhere he could get at it anyway?
advancing the front into TV Tropes
It would have been harder without the gun, but he could have grabbed a knife from the kitchen and done it nearly as easily.
That being said, you're right that the gun should not have been anywhere he could get it.
A procrastination in of itself
Killing someone with a knife isn't an easy, if nothing else it's a lot more bloody and requires continued action, you have to get up close with a knife and presumably keep stabbing multiple times, with a gun you shoot once from a distance and that's it. The added bloodiness might actually shock an only mildly unhinged person out of it.
Note that the victim's mother was there, if the killer had come at the kid with a knife they might have run away, they might have been able to subdue him, that wasn't possibly explicitly because the kid had a gun.
Also I hope that the great grandparents are convinced of something for trying to cover it up, they can spend the rest of their lives in jail.
edited 7th Feb '16 2:11:41 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
This isn't really a problem with society per say, just with this particular individual and his parents as well.
It is true that they (the parents) shouldn't have left guns within reach of him, however. I get the feeling they really aren't the most attentive people in general. Covering up their kid's actions, while highly unethical, is unsurprising in my opinion.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
A procrastination in of itself
I'm not sure if it was the parents, as the great grandparents are the ones who tried to cover it up they may have been the ones responsible for him having access to the guns. The parents are still responsible for raising a murderer though.
Actually considering it's the great grandparents who are planning to appeal something seems off, there is only a brief mention of the boy's dad and grandad, it feels like there's some serious family absense somewhere here.
edited 7th Feb '16 2:17:13 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Seems like it's the great grandparents that had custody of the boy, if they're the ones making the appeal. Of course, it could be it's just that it's the great grandmother who was being interviewed at the time rather than a parent, and she just said what the family plans on doing, not that the great grandparents have parental custody of the boy.
Gotta say that considering the age of the boy I'm not actually that surprised or unsympathetic to the fact that they tried to cover it up.
edited 7th Feb '16 2:57:42 PM by AceofSpades
A procrastination in of itself
They didn't just try and cover it up, from what it says they (and the kid himself) tried to frame another boy for it.
Also a I have no sympathy for them, the age of the killer just shows that they also have a ton of responsibility, they will be the ones who made that boy a killer and that means that clearly the best thing for that boy even is to get him the hell away from them, before they turn him into an even greater threat to society and he ends up having to be being shot by the police while trying to kill again.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
... Wow, this is seriously messed up shit. They should lock up the kid and his caretakers, because the kid couldn't have done what he did the way he did without being raised horribly wrong in one or more ways.
edited 8th Feb '16 2:34:17 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
A nice butterfly
The most horrible ting is that the child might as well have been well, and that it was just this one tiny detail, this negligence, abuse and complete lack of...everything by the parents that ended up making this kid's life pretty much fucked up for what remains of it.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Jupiterian Local
That said, they're still liable for leaving guns lying around where the kid could get them.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Yes-no: you can be born with a tendency to lean in antisocial ways in your processing and personality. What seals the deal is whether the environment around you as you grow encourages those traits over more social behaviours. That's when you can all-too easily tipple into disorder territory over years.
It's not an on-off switch. :/ And, the good news is that the kid is young enough that some of the damage can be mitigated enough to drag him from disordered into a more sustainable set of behaviours... as long as he steers clear of the family dynamic that nurtured them. That is, if that's his problem.
edited 8th Feb '16 7:11:03 PM by Euodiachloris
A nice butterfly
The problem is that the kid being treated as a criminal and being put in permanent detention and stuff doesn't look like it's headed to be like that
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Nope, sadly. I can live in hope that he gets a secure psychiatric facility, but... ha-ha... in the US? -_-
A nice butterfly
In the U.S, he will have an right ot bear arms tho so thatll make it k
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Yeah, age of majority exists for a reason- the age at which someone is held to be responsible for the majority of their decisions
A procrastination in of itself
What is it in the US? In the UK the age of criminal responsibility is 10 and I belive that's considered low by some.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Jupiterian Local
There's no hard and fast age in the US where you're considered responsible for yourself. Theoretically you're a minor until the age of 18, but in terms of criminal court, it's not uncommon for minors to be tried as adults if their actions were deliberate and willful rather than merely reckless or negligent. For example, going and getting a gun out of your house and then returning to the location of a dispute in order to shoot someone you were arguing with would likely get a 16 or 17 year old tried as an adult on the charge of first degree murder, while being an idiot and killing someone by shooting randomly and hitting someone with a ricochet is more likely to see you tried as a minor. The case of the 11 year old is clearly deliberate and intentional, and it's hard to argue that someone that age wouldn't understand that pointing a loaded gun at someone and pulling the trigger is likely to kill them, but 11 is young enough that trying them as an adult would be unexpected.
Regarding the earlier subject of American football and the health effects thereof, it turns out that the NFL has been deliberately influencing research on the subject
. tldr, the NFL funds a lot of research on the effects of head injuries, but it tends to pull funding from researches that arrive at conclusions they don't like, and has a team of pet scientists that it uses to throw sand in the gears of other scientist's research (such as suggesting that sensors placed in football helmets that have a 96% accuracy rating for recording injurious impacts aren't useful for research because they didn't provide precise enough data).
A procrastination in of itself
Age of criminal responsibility isn't be tried as an adult, it's being tried at all. As in bellow that age you can't be found criminally responsible for an action, the same way a gorilla can't be found criminally responsible for an action.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
96% isn't precise?!
The Mod with the Migraine
We've gotta protect our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen! Harumph!
Not sure if this would be better for the gun thread, but the eleven-year old who murdered his eight-year old neighbor over a puppy
has been sentenced to spend the rest of his childhood in custody.
A Jefferson County Juvenile Court judge found Benjamin Nicolas Tiller guilty of the murder of Ma Kayla Dyer, according to court documents. He was placed into custody by the Department of Children’s Services until he reaches his 19th birthday.
Ma Kayla Dyer, a student at White Pine Elementary, was killed Oct. 3, 2015, outside her home. Juvenile Judge Dennis “Will” Roach II, who presided over Tiller’s case, wrote in a court order that Tiller was playing with Ma Kayla Dyer, her 11-year-old sister and her friend when he asked her to retrieve her puppies. After she said no, he went inside and came back with a 12-gauge shotgun and a BB gun, telling the girls he had guns.
“The victim then laughed at Mr. Tiller, and stated that she believed they were not real,” read the court documents. “Tiller then made certain the gun was loaded, cocked the hammer of the gun, and shot the victim just above the heart” from inside the window.
Dyer fell backwards and was later confirmed dead.
“The mother of the child knelt on the ground and picked her child up, placing her child in her arms as she passed away,” wrote Judge Roach in the order. After the shooting, Tiller’s great grandparents claimed another child shot Ma Kayla Dyer, but according to the court order the boy actually threw the gun out the window to another child who picked up the gun, attempted to hand it back to him and then set it down on the ground. Tiller then reportedly laughed at the girls.
Judge Roach said Tiller had been trained in firearm safety and had been taken hunting by both his father and grandfather.
The judge concluded his order by stating that Tiller is in “desperate need of help,” and our society has a great need for him to receive it. “A child who commits first-degree murder cannot be willy-nilly turned loose into society,” read the order.
Tiller’s great grandmother’s told WATE 6 On Your Side they plan on appealing the ruling.