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Why did my true companions go to the dark side?

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whymia Since: May, 2014
#1: Mar 26th 2015 at 8:19:41 PM

Basically two of the true companions take a major face heel turn, kill their friend, the hero(king), and take over the country under the guise of regents as the king's son grows up.

Problem: I have no idea why they did it. The closest I get is that the hero mercifully stopped the war they had been waging on the neighboring country when he could have annihilated them, and that upset the true companions who wanted revenge.

It isn't enough. I'm wracking my brains, trying to understand what could make two people murder someone who was closer than family (sworn blood brother kind of thing).

The setting is high fantasy-ish with a satirical twist. Part of that is making the villains- the 'evil overlord', so to speak—understandable and believable while still having them do horrific things. I need a believable start of darkness.

final note: they are a married couple

Kazeto Elementalist from somewhere in Europe. Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Elementalist
#2: Mar 26th 2015 at 10:06:29 PM

If you have no idea why they do it then don't have them do it until you know, it's as simple as that.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand that you want to do it and that my answer probably feels useless and potentially even a bit rude. Yes, I am aware, I tend to sound like that sometimes.

Point is, motivations are a ... let's say "special" kind of thing. So if your character does not have motivation for something they would normally never do because you cannot conceive a motivation that would make them do such a thing, it means that even if someone else tells you what that motivation could have been you would not be able to portray it well. Well, in most cases; there are rare cases when authors indeed do succeed in that, but that's an exception rather than the norm.

That being said, we could help you in trying to think of a motivation on your own. I have no idea if that succeeds, but if it does you are much more likely to be able to write it well after that.

So I start with this: is there anything in the setting that can alter the mental state of people and make them do things they wouldn't normally do?

Cozzer Since: Mar, 2015
#3: Mar 27th 2015 at 1:18:20 AM

The good thing is, once you have decided on a motivation you can retroactively insert it in their characterization from the beginning. :P

Personally, in this kind of situation I'm a fan of the Well-Intentioned Extremist trope. Maybe they really started as friends of the king, but they disagree on something, and that something is so important that they have to force themselves to kill their friend to prevent it.

The revenge thing is not a bad idea. Just make sure the two always refer to it as "justice" and not "revenge", and that their disagreement with the king starts small and spirals out of control.

edited 27th Mar '15 1:19:35 AM by Cozzer

Kazeto Elementalist from somewhere in Europe. Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Elementalist
#4: Mar 27th 2015 at 2:25:44 AM

Indeed, I very much agree with what Cozzer wrote here.

Whatever you do about the characters, make sure that they always refer to it in a way that, from their own perspective, portrays them as the "right" ones.

Well, generally speaking. It is possible to write "good" characters who do things that aren't "right" even in their own eyes. But that is harder to write because those characters are complicated and their motivations tend to be harder to write in a way that is believable.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#5: Mar 27th 2015 at 2:38:17 AM

Poor Communication Kills could also be a good tool in that case. Maybe there was a simple misunderstanding that escalated, possibly fueled by a third party.

The characters could become convinced that the king is the one plotting against them, no matter how much he denies it, because of little clues they keep picking up that seem to point in this direction. Those clues could either be planted by this malevolent third party, or simply coincidences that become proofs in their paranoid mind.

The characters would end up concluding that they have to kill the king, no matter how hard it is for them, because of what they think he has become.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
whymia Since: May, 2014
#6: Mar 27th 2015 at 9:59:42 PM

[up][up][up][up]

At this point in the worldbuilding, there isn't anything that would alter their state of mind—at least, nothing that we don't have on earth.

[up][up][up]

They really did start out as friends of the king. The 'revenge' bit is not so much directed at him, but at the country/ people they were fighting against. They wanted to annihilate this country, but then the king ended the war. somehow their pent-up anger channeled itself at the king, they kill him, and shift the power away from his son (who is a kid at the time) who they are the regents of. Much of the true evil they do after this is to maintain their power, which they use to isolate and cripple the country they hate so much.

[up][up] [tup] that is sorta what i'm trying to do. These two are the heroes of their own stories, or at least the anti-heroes. There is guilt and remorse over "having" to kill the king, but it doesn't stop them from falling further. The female half of this pair becomes especially sadistic, but while she started out as a trickster type at most, that wasn't something she used pre-stresser

[up] The idea of them being turned against the king is a good one, especially them thinking he's the one that has fallen, however it doesn't fit what I have in mind so far.

You are all [awesome] for taking the time to help me! I'm going to try and fill in a few more details here, but what i'm really looking for is brainstorming what the initial crack was. I don't expect anyone to write this for me, but I desperately need outside help to bounce ideas around The two ideas I have so far but are missing something are:

ideaDeath of someone they loved

idea One of them being captured and tortured (Not too fond of this one. it seems...not cliched but perhaps too obvious?)

Helpful(?) descriptions/ notes from my notes:

The male: Dignified, aloof, proud, rational, honorable—if in a skewed way/ noble demon trope. Almost "beware the nice ones" taken to the extreme.

The female: Devious, sadistic,vain, and charming—this last bit fades post-stresser. Is a powerful mage, but she doesn't need magic to be scary. Not awesome in armed combat, but can hold her own quite well.

both share a love for power and taking it away from others. the latter part wasn't a thing pre-stresser.

Sorry i'm so vague, I hope this is making sense. I'm trying to keep the details to myself to avoid spoilers and such

P.s. I cannot remember how to do the link thing to tropes for the life of me.

Bonerfart Since: Sep, 2014
#7: Mar 28th 2015 at 11:37:09 AM

Make the characters' personalities first, then write the story.

edited 28th Mar '15 2:24:45 PM by Bonerfart

Kazeto Elementalist from somewhere in Europe. Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Elementalist
#8: Mar 29th 2015 at 7:56:41 AM

Hmm ... I'd say that for the initial crack, using Poor Communication Kills would probably be a good idea.

You could have them get hold of a message that implies that the king is planning to do something horrible, and trying to act against it and talk it out with the king, only for it to fail because it was someone else's conspiracy or something. That could be a start of something, and though they'd try there likely wouldn't be much trust between them and all that.

J.G.Crowne I am the Dreamer. You're the Dream. from Room 237 Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Hiding
I am the Dreamer. You're the Dream.
#9: Apr 3rd 2015 at 10:06:47 PM

Brutus murdered Caesar because he believed he threatened the republic and wanted to defend Rome against a monarchy. Cassius murdered Caesar to control Rome and by extension the Empire. Perhaps your conspirators have ambitions? Or perhaps they wish to maintain the status quo?

Explore the characters and their motivations more deeply and the answer will reveal itself. smile

Do you read Sutter Cane?
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