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Cysma Since: Jan, 2001
#1: Feb 10th 2015 at 11:42:44 PM

I've been on a real big sci-fi kick lately because I'm interested in getting a glimpse of what our own future could be like, but one big thing that's been bothering me in a lot of sci-fi themed works has had a lot to do with No Transhumanism Allowed and its related tropes.

Basically, I find it difficult to believe that hundreds if not thousands of years from now, humans will look and talk the exact same as we do today. Won't our languages evolve and change over such a period of time? Won't our knowledge of our own biology and medical advances allow us to recode the human genome in our own image? Barring war or some other catastrophe, won't human progress lead us to some technological singularity within the next century?

What I'm imagining is that humanity would branch off into various races of Transhuman Aliens, many of them unrecognizable from what they once were as they strive towards their own ideas of perfection. Maybe they alter their biology to adapt to living on a different planet, or become part of a hive mind or upload themselves as data onto machines to gain a measure of immortality, while others achieve the same result by creating a transhuman race resistant to injury and disease and self-sustaining for an indefinite lifespan. All of these races don't even have to look like bipedal hominids; perhaps we'll find an even more useful figure to mold ourselves into in the future.

The same can also be said of all aliens in sci-fi works. Why are we always seeing aliens that look like humans but with different foreheads or makeup or whatever? Almost every alien thing I've seen in fiction has invariably had all of its physical features in common with things we have on Earth. Wouldn't it be more likely that otherworldly beings might look like NOTHING we have ever seen before? It also seems arrogant to think that the human form and level of intelligence are the pinnacle of life in the universe. There could easily be an alien race out there somewhere that goes far beyond "sentient", far beyond "sapient", operating on a mental level that we currently could not even comprehend. If you ask me, I think H.P. Lovecraft had the right idea of what Sufficiently Advanced Aliens could be like.

Are there any works that you think I should look into, that have an emphasis on transhumanism and its effects on society, and aliens that are truly, well, alien? Are all of my complaints above simply a result of Most Writers Are Human?

MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#2: Feb 11th 2015 at 12:39:09 AM

Cyborging has a lot of possibilities IMO.

Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#3: Feb 11th 2015 at 11:19:07 AM

I had a thought of a Mars mission - the first "manned" mission - in which the scientists who go there are all cyborgs. Most of them leave the LM in non-humanoid shells (into which the biopods, housing their brain and few remaining organs, have been placed) that are tricked out with various sensors and tools to facilitate exploration and research...

... all except the mission commander who elected to go out in the humaniform body she would normally use on Earth as she wanted to feel the Martian soil with her hands and see it with her eyes.

For all the shell replicates human norms in appearance and sensory input, it's impervious to the cold and has internal oxygen supplies for a period of time.

So there's a bunch of weird robot/rover-like "humans" and one human in a light jumpsuit and sneakers wandering about the surface of Mars.

Cyborgs were sent because they wanted humans "on the ground" rather than light-minutes away from the robot rover and also the lower life-support requirements (only having to sustain the brains, not full-sized human bodies) and machine-like versatility.

I can imagine that bioengineering, cyborgs and such would definitely have an effect on the look of "humanity" in the future and affect how they look and what they can handle.

As to actual aliens, I reckon the less humanoid the better - right down to being so bizarrely alien that they are incapable of replicating our language and their own languages incorporate body parts that we don't possess or possibly require senses we don't have (without significant bio-engineering or implants).

Humans, being pattern-sensing, may well describe one in "Earth-like" terms - "vaguely like a ten-limbed spider with a long neck" - due to their own terms of reference, but that's not going to be an accurate description of the creature/race.

Still, some "Earth-centric" descriptive prose will be required for the readers to understand - readers and writers are human.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#4: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:10:13 PM

Until we actually find some otherworldly life, we can't actually say whether or not we'd find something that looks like ourselves. However, if we're talking about having been developed in Earth like conditions, it's not unreasonable to expect we'd find something that's like ourselves or like something else found on Earth. If we're talking something like Europa, then yeah we probably wouldn't find something like ourselves, if we even find something intelligent.

Also, since you're apparently looking for an actual answer; because the actors the shows had on hand were humans and animatronics, puppetry, and CGI weren't exactly as refined as they are now. And pretty damned expensive. It wasn't lack of imagination, really. See ET and and that show with Sebaceans for sci fi shows that had non human looking aliens thanks to puppetry and animatronics. And for ET that was pretty cutting edge at the time. Look at animated features and books where the limitations of human actors weren't a problem. The animated Star Trek was able to stretch out with the aliens a bit; they had one with three arms and three legs that wouldn't have been possible at the time and was probably prohibitive to wear as a costume in subsequent series.

I mean, really, it's not just a basic fact of writers being human, but of everyone involved in the project being human and, you know, not being able to say grow two more sets of limbs. It's kind of the same reason why the character Tyrion in the tv version of Game of Thrones doesn't have a mangled face with no nose right now.

And HP Lovecraft was a cosmic horror writer whose aliens tended towards indifference or outright malevolence, and either way were interested in destroying us to make space for themselves. Which, you know, alien invasion is an oft-tread concept. And cosmic horror is... kind of nihilistic and not really a genre for everybody. He wasn't really a straight up science fiction writer (in fact he seemed to be dismayed by science revealing how much they didn't know at the time) so he's possibly not the best example.

Anyway you could try out Embassytown by China Mieville. His stuff is supremely weird.

Also it's kind of weird that you're complaining about languages when attempts to incorporate future possible languages can be incredibly annoying and inhibit understanding of the story. If we think about it we're just supposed to think that translation convention is in effect. Also a LOT of the fiction I've read makes a point of saying that yes, there are different languages, and whatever we're currently seeing spoken is the current equivalent of English. I'm not sure what else you could be asking here, except for maybe for writers to conlang more and be like Tolkien in that regard. Which for quite a few would be hassle and inhibit actually getting the story done. Most stories involving aliens seems to have at least a few curse words floating around.

edited 11th Feb '15 10:21:47 PM by AceofSpades

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#5: Feb 17th 2015 at 6:04:56 AM

Transhumanism is a tricky one - we can see how our society still reacts to piercings and tattoos. And how governments and religious sects are still fairly conserative about anything to do with embryos.

All the regulation aorund pharmaceuticals, health and safety, a fear of things being "weaponised"?

Deus Ex does a good job of showing that fear raised up. It's getting to the stage, however, that cybernetics may be supplanted by growing replacement limbs instead (So no need for an exoskeleton, well... except maybe for certain types of amputee etc)

Charles Stross does a good job with how humans upload themselves, or change their very nature - in one story, one consciousnes spends a year as a flock of birds, which has a dramatically negative impact on his marriage!

We are already approaching it: We use small boxes to remember and do half our thinking for us. We don't require line of sight for communication. We can build virtual worlds to our whims. We are slowly extending our life and will probably be able to impact aging.

Of course, most societies will likely restrict this, then probably only have certain advances being available to the very wealthy (artifical restriction of supply, like diamonds, to keep the cash restricted) unless there's a sudden, destabilising shift in power that makes it all available.

In Star trek, the Borg are more of a "transhuman" race, insofar as they don't adhere to a real "planet of hats" approach - they are a single, multi-conscious entity. They aren't scientists, warriors or traders, they are just absorbers of tech.

Q could also suffice as something so advanced, the technology it posseses we perceive as magic. Babylon 5 - you have the Technomages and, to some extent, the Psi-Corps. In racial terms, the Vorlons and Shadows as well, even perhaps the Minbari.

A lot of Sci fi treats transhumanism with fear - Mass Effect doesn't allow anything to be too far away from baseline normal - marines being genetically upgraded, but only to a certain level; the Council outlawing any form of AI; cybernetics having a hard stop point before it becomes "bad".

Even Doctor Who shies away from it: the Cybermen in the Nu Who are a step towards "singularity" but it's played as "bad" because it means losing whatever makes you human. the Daleks as well. Even those with cybernetics are human IN SPITE OF any tech they have internally. it's treated as a deficiency, or a disability or something "wrong".

Sympathetic treatments? Anne Mc Caffrey's telepath series - humans slowly evolving to become near godlike in power, via tech upgrades and genetics.

Any other examples?

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#6: Feb 20th 2015 at 6:49:39 AM

There is some talk in Human Revolution about how Cybernetics can be used for good such as allowing people to walk again, to feel.

The Teen Titans cartoon took a neutral approach with Brother Blood and Cyborg. Cyborg may have a few issues with his cyborg body but he is still human, and he is happy with who he is, and his cybernetics allow him to save lives which is more than worth it.

Brother Blood on the flip side wanted more than just cybernetics, he was going to use Cyborg's tech to turn people into loyal obedient robots which is actually not transhumanism and just being a awful person.

The catch with Dr. Who isn't that the Cybermen are evil because of their machinery, it's because they are forcefully imposing their idea of the singularity onto everyone else, less the cybernetics and more suppressing their own feelings to avoid pain and learning coupled with the new power they have. And the Daleks are space nazis and were always that way without the tanks that act as their bodies.

edited 20th Feb '15 6:51:00 AM by EchoingSilence

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#7: Feb 20th 2015 at 7:10:23 AM

[up]With that think it sometimes depends on the writer - some stories seem to imply that they are evil because they no longer have their humanity.

The Daleks are evil trans-beings because they engineered out any compassion and kindness.

Robots and cyborgs in Doctor Who tend to get short shrift - they are usually faulty, prone to treachery and will impose a terrifying non-organic dominion upon you. Yes organics and aliens are equally bad, but their goals are often smaller. They play it as something to be feared rather than embraced; something that could go wrong.

Weirdly, genetic engineering doesn't get such as much short shrift...

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#8: Feb 20th 2015 at 7:19:45 AM

Dr. Who is actually a mixed bag as it's a lot of depending on the writer.

As for transhumanism in fiction a lot of it is portrayed as evil because no one had a choice (which is understandable, as I would hate being given unnecessary surgery) and was forced into it.

Good transhumanism needs to be displayed as a clear choice or life saving in case of emergency. Again Cyborg from DC is a great example of good transhumanism.

edited 20th Feb '15 7:20:06 AM by EchoingSilence

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#9: Feb 20th 2015 at 7:44:25 AM

[up]Definitely. I think Transhumanism also goes both one way or the other - forced evolution (Genetics) or technology (Cybernetics)

It's interesting how Star Trek portrays transhumans as well - despite hitting a Utopia, the Federation does seem to have a limit on what they're happy to allow RE: Genetics (Julian Bashir for example) and they certianly seem to abhor cybernetics.

Star Wars, their universe seems fairly stagnant in terms of human / racial evolution (The banking clans being a weird transhuman aside)

Farscape had some interesting approaches, with a few cyborgs and genetically modified creatures. Babylon 5 also had some good approaches, implied genetic screening etc to cure disease, some cyborgs.

As for aliens, the Timelords ar eprobably a pretty good example of transhumans - beings that are so altered they can change themselves at will.

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#10: Feb 20th 2015 at 7:51:35 AM

I wouldn't call Transhumanism evolution. Not even forced evolution.

But as for Star Trek, transhumanism is a touchy subject for them since the last time they did it, they fucked up and caused the great Eugenics war that ended out nuclear. I wouldn't blame em for being touchy about it.

Star Wars, the Clone Wars damaged the general perception of genetic engineering but funnily enough Cybernetics continued perfectly fine. They don't eat your soul so much as too many brain implants affect your perception (understandable as brain surgery does affect people) of reality.

I got a general setting that deals in Cybernetics. Hell most of my settings do. Each general public perception is different.

Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#11: Feb 22nd 2015 at 10:30:46 PM

I think one thing that's not done enough in SF is extended lifespans. Very few SF programs have actors in their twenties and thirties playing characters that are in their fifties and sixties.

I can't recall where I read it, but apparently Malcolm Reynolds from Firefly is supposed to be in his fifties and played by an early-thirties actor but in most other series, the character is played by an actor of about the age of the character (unless they're getting a 25-year-old to play a teenager, that is) and the humans have the same sort of lifespan we do now.

We need more characters like Louis Wu who're kicking around the place on their 200th birthday looking about 30-ish.

Or even just characters who are in their seventies and look "40-ish" and someone who looks 60-70 to our eyes being "over 120 and still going strong".

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#12: Feb 23rd 2015 at 5:16:32 AM

Life extending medicine exists within Mass Effect. Anderson is like... what? 60? 50? Only has wrinkles thanks to stress and politics.

Error404 Magus from Tau Ceti IV-2 Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Magus
#13: Mar 13th 2015 at 4:31:40 PM

I'm not honestly sure why there's an anti-transhuman or -phobic bent to a lot of sci-fi. Could just be people wanting to retain their humanity. Could be a fear of the unknown. Could be people expecting Transhuman Body Horror. Who knows?

Personally, I prefer SF that takes a neutral stance on it. It happens; like some folks have tattoos, some don't. That type of thing.

May just be my slight pragmatic bent talking, but I've never seen it as a bad thing. To steal a quote from Civ: B.E. -

"We discarded the rocket boosters that launched us from Earth when they became less useful. Why should we not discard these genetics when we can i prove them?"

(Slightly paraphrased.)

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#14: Mar 13th 2015 at 5:03:49 PM

One of my new settings no one really cares anymore. Humanity is already in kind of a bad place so no one really gives a shit. Hell the resident super soldiers are a positive example in universe.

Matues Impossible Gender Forge Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Impossible Gender Forge
#15: Mar 14th 2015 at 10:29:24 AM

Orion's Arm has a large number of transhumanistic clades that may be of interest. Transhumanism is sort of the default in the setting itself, with baseline humans with no alterations at all being very, very uncommon.

You're more likely to find someone who's close enough, or really just a living house. One of the clades includes space-borne clockwork von-neumann machines. (Someone made them as an art project, IIRC, and they just kept going. They tend to like being themselves. Think awfully slow, though, at like 1/200th human speed? They're sort of like space Amish. Kilometers large, fully mechanical, sapient machine-like Amish. Who live in space and eat comets.)

That someone would make an entire sapient branch of life for an artistic challenge gives you an idea of what sort of place the setting is.

dvorak The World's Least Powerful Man from Hiding in your shadow (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
The World's Least Powerful Man
#16: Mar 14th 2015 at 2:24:30 PM

Personally, I have no problems with it. I fell in love with transhumanism when I played Space Siege. All my settings have biomechanical and cybernetic augmentations. One setting even had them available at the drugstore. My current setting has cybernetics as an invasive medical procedure only performed in the direst of circumstances, and Bio-Augmentation as a way to have symbiotic Living Weapons. The former is seen as a tragedy, the latter as an atrocity by everyone except the two Renegade Splinter Factions that espouses them.

edited 14th Mar '15 2:27:55 PM by dvorak

Now everyone pat me on the back and tell me how clever I am!
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