Life is Strange

Same here. It was so disturbing.

Considering he didn't kill Kate (though he probably edged on her suicide attempt) I wonder if Rachel being killed was abnormal. Perhaps because she was sobering up and realized what was happening? Not to lessen how much of a scumbag he is at all, just wondering how many murders he committed.

Seriously, though. Fuck Mr. Jefferson.

The main thing that makes me think of is Nightcrawler

edited 28th Jul '15 11:40:52 PM by StateOfBedlam

Huh, interesting. Clearly it's not an unexplored topic.

Of course, Max often does intervene, while Jefferson actively creates suffering. Evil Counterpart? I think so.

You know, the fact that there were rumors that Jefferson slept with Rachel just became a lot darker in hindsight.

Scuuuumbaaaaaag.

Chloe: "I loved her so much. How can she be dead?!" .

My heart is broken.

The feels. The feeeeeeeels. Like I mentioned earlier, I think that might have hit me harder because I'm shipping them, but even without that... Ugh.

Also re: an earlier comment by you—I have been unfamiliar with almost all of the music in the game, and loved most of it regardless. But hearing Amanda Palmer in Ep4 really made my day. I love AFP and it was really nice to have her underscoring two scenes (because of course I chose to put that same song back on in the putting-the-clues-together scene, since you have a choice of three songs).

Ok, what the HELL is the code for Nathan's Phone? I swear I've tried every number on that sheet of paper and none work. I know I can just get the phone to lock up and use the PUK code, but I know that's registered on the end choice tally so I want to get it open legitimately.

It's his birthday.

It's his birthday, 0829

Unnoun is a

edited 29th Jul '15 5:05:52 PM by lrrose

...Its his... birthday...

I overestimated him... and gave him too much credit.

I locked it and just used the long PUK code.

Edit: Anyone else figure out David's lock, though?

edited 29th Jul '15 6:45:37 PM by SilentColossus

David's lock is 7171. You can learn the code back in Episode 3, when you can find the padlock already opened with the proper combination in it. Of course, there's nothing in the game to remind you of this small detail from a chapter that came out two months ago.

Yup. Dug through Max's files and was surprised when I saw the lock combination staring at me.

Edit: Hmm, that sounded rude and/or smug. Changed it. Sorry.

edited 29th Jul '15 6:57:51 PM by SilentColossus

I mean, to be fair, that's pretty true to life.

If I was Max I most definitely wouldn't have memorized that combo.

I've been recently thinking about the posibilities that a second season might have and I was curious for other people's thoughts.

My first question is; How important is Time Travel to the identity of the series? Should the potential protagonist of the second season also have the power of Time Travel like Max does, or should they have a different super power that the series can build its gameplay mechanics around? Or maybe both?

On one hand, I think we've covered a lot of important parts of time travel in the first season and comfortably used its mechanics and understood its uses; rewinding to use knowledge we gained through different dialogue options, warping around to avoid detection in stealth segments, and others.

On the other hand, I'm not entirely sure what kind of other power could gel nearly as well with the dialogue and choice based gameplay elements. My first thought of a classic super power was Telekinesis, but I can't think of many instances where that would be interesting in a High School Drama and Dialogue setting and it would work better in a typical action game.

Plus, Time Travel and the way its used fits perfectly into the game/series' title so far.

My second question is of protagonist; How would a series like this operate with a more seriously flawed protagonist? I've noticed a lot of people don't like Max very much or, while they like her well enough, find her a bit bland and not entirely flawed or that those flaws aren't as directly touched upon. And that's fine; the game isn't just Max's journey as a character and she's not in a setting or situation that is challenging those more flawed aspects of her character. Anyway, I'm rambling, back on point.

Its a trend I've noticed from nearly every Telltale game and a little bit from Life is Strange; the player characters don't tend to be flawed people. Or, its very easy for them to not come across as such unless you screw up choices in certain ways. Lee from TWD comes across as mostly agreeable and, because the game never elaborates on why he was going to jail in the first place much, he doesn't have many flaws as acknowledged by the narrative.

I've also noticed that, when such games give you the option to have your character be flawed (not making choices, being silent, not knowing what to do), it doesn't get acknowledged in a meaningful way. If I go out of my way to make Lee flawed and imperfect, I either fail an get eaten by a zombie, it doesn't make too much of a difference, or I come across as an asshole with not much reason/pay off for doing so.

So, how would a series like this deal with a much more flawed protagonist when it comes to player choices? Say we have a protagonist that smokes or has some other addiction; How would that plotline play out when other characters confront the player over their addiction? What happens if the player admits to the character's faults (even if they aren't faults controlled by the player)? What happens if the player denies such faults of the protagonist?

I would be curious about the next season exploring the protagonist player a bit more maybe?

I think I might play the rest of episode 3 and the entirety of 4 soon. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know spoilers for episode 4 but I'm really worried about it. I know that it's gonna hit me harder than a freight train.

I don't have an answer to the question, but I do want to point out that Bigby, the protagonist of Wolf Among Us, is pretty seriously flawed.

... But then that game takes place in a seriously Crapsack World and nearly every character is fucked up beyond belief, so maybe it's not a great example.

The time travel is inextricable. The ability to see the most immediate results of your choices is a significant part of the experience.

If time travel is replaced, it needs to be replaced with something equally as imperceptible to those around you. In Life is Strange, you can walk down the hallway while repeatedly rewinding time and no one is the wiser. So, illusions or mind control for example.

I have zero issue with Max as protagonist. I don't fully understand the criticisms you're alluding to.

edited 29th Jul '15 9:38:48 PM by StateOfBedlam

I disagree somewhat. Bigby feels... semi-flawed. I think the issue comes more from the fact that The Wolf Among Us is a prequel more than anything else. So, regardless of how nice I act in the game, he's still going to be viewed as an asshole in the future, if not be an actual asshole. So, it ends up feeling a bit inconsistent if viewed over all.

If I act like a nice reasonable guy the entire time, it brings into question why everyone thinks I'm an asshole before then? And why is Bigby suddenly acting like a nice reasonable person? Or, if he's always been a reasonable person, what does this say of the cast around us? It feels kind of... shallow for an exploration of a flawed protagonist.

Max, and the Telltale protagonists, are as flawed as our choices. Essentially, when you fuck up and make a choice you regret, that is a flawed decision of the character.

I feel like the protagonists of Tales From the Borderlands are somewhat flawed - it helps that they are often seen from the other's point of view.

At the very least, both have on at least one occasion told blatant falsehoods for the sake of making themselves look good.

Edit: Illusions or mind control are interesting ideas, although the latter could easily get creepy. Moral ambiguity is great, but I'd prefer if they kept certain things off the table.

...Actually, you could have the core mechanic be telepathy - start with mind-reading, then steadily progress towards stuff like illusions and mind control.

Would we still have a photography theme?

edited 29th Jul '15 10:07:07 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Right, if a character makes a flawed decision, it can be a character flaw in a way, but I, as the player, can disregard that flaw by not screwing up or making that choice. I may not even be aware of it if I make certain choices. For example, when I did the Frank Bowers scene earlier, I got through it without making a mistake in the first go (It was really intense since I KNEW from Live Streams just how screwed up this could go) so it doesn't create that character 'flaw'.

Though, I also don't know how much of a 'character flaw' some of these choices might end up making since, well, 'fumbling for a gun' isn't entirely what I'd consider a character flaw. Or, for a more contextual example, would valuing the photo of David harassing Kate over stepping in for Kate inform a character flaw?

Basically, I'm wondering how far can we potentially push a character arc and character development of a protagonist that is mostly shaped by player decisions.

Since Photography is kind of objective, maybe something more subjective??? Like, maybe mind reading but its done through more of a subjective memory standpoint? In terms of 'art' being an alegory for the powers, maybe the protagonist is a writer, because writing is typically constrained by point of view and, as places like these forms are about, writing can end up being rather subjective?

edited 29th Jul '15 11:32:09 PM by InkDagger

I'm not sure about changing the super power. Because a big reason the time travel mechanic fits this game so well, is that it really plays to the sort of metagamey "Shit, I don't like how this choice turned out. I need to reload" feeling, by letting you do that in a context the game actively encourages (and this, in turn, leads to a lot of the major consequences of your actions being felt further down the line, so you can't rewind). And I'm not sure I want to lose the utility that has, either.

I'm not sure where I stand re character flaws, but I do feel there are definite aspects of at least some of these protagonists that are flaws and can't be changed. Max is always kinda mumbly and bad at expressing herself, and that has gotten her in trouble. Bigby is always kind of an abrasive guy, and he definitely cares more about the Woodlands than anywhere else no matter what you do (which is why people think he's a jerk even if you're nice). Rhys and Fiona are both... kinda dumb.

The thing is, I think you're looking for explicit call-outs for these flaws, and ignoring all the implicit ones. Someone doesn't have to say "Man, Max sure is quiet" (though they do do that) for you to get that.

Though, that said, I wouldn't be opposed to a protagonist that has more glaring flaws that are completely out of my control. They need to not make that character completely unsympathetic, though, which is a fine line to walk.

I'm not explicitly looking for call outs to flaws, but more of a point for the character to change and develop. A character arc. At the moment, I can't think of one for characters like Lee, Bigby, and Max and I believe most of that relates to how the characters are ruled by player choice in every line of dialogue; it'd be significantly harder to make sure everything reconciled.

Max comes the closest to a character arc; she comes out of her shell significantly more and can branch out to become better friends with people like Juliet, Kate, Dana, Warren, and Chloe. But that isn't so much of a Character Arc on a deliberate scale; the story would largely remain the same if Max was a socialite and most of this is because she's a player character who is naturally going to talk to everyone around her and be involved, nor is it exactly a major part of the story that Max is becoming more involved.

It would be interesting to see if they can pull of a serious Character Arc in a game where every line of dialogue is player determined.

EDIT:

On a second note, How does Joyce know about Chloe breaking into Blackwell? Obviously, she'd know about it if I didn't erase the message or if she heard me play the message, but I rewound time and erased the message first, so I'm confused if this is a glitch or I missed something.

edited 30th Jul '15 1:27:23 AM by InkDagger