Suicide Squad Movie

Gaon: haweye and widow are good until the big climax start, them they become the "just there" team member with one or two scene being badass to be there, granted this is not mean they are useless but that they should tone down the whole "great battle with hundred of mooks" because it clearly benefict some than others.

Now, the problem with the Squad is the power levels, as I coment you compared to assult to arkham were they use a unreliable team to kill one simple men feel hollow, here is the other way around as Enchantress is just waaaay of their league, I feel enchantress should be use later.

to be fair, even a good actor dosent work well in all the movies, will smith is terrible in "after earth" but blame shaymalan who manage to null is will smithness

I am actually not sure if Will Smith is good in SS or not. I mean, he is very likable and charismatic in the typical classic Will Smith fashion, but, well, isn't he supposed to be an assassin? Should he be likable in the context of the movie and the story they try to tell?

I have my grievances with Arrow, enough that I haven't watched the show for quite some time, but I actually feel that they did a way better job with introducing the SS than the movie did, and this version of Deadshot works way better for me. I mean, I can sympathize with him to a certain degree, just enough that I wouldn't want him to get blown up, but that doesn't mean that I forget for one second that this guy is an assassin. Will Smith plays the role more like a hero.

edited 10th Jan '17 4:27:24 AM by Swanpride

It should be pointed out that the Suicide Squad in the comics has characters of varying degrees of morality in them.

Will Smith plays the character like a professional— and plays him like Will Smith— and I don't think there's much of a percentage in having Will Smith try to be unlikeable. That is, it's the movie that makes the character into a hero rather than Will Smith as an actor, and I think the character would have worked just fine if they'd given the Squad as a whole some more morally questionable things to do. The physical performance carries a certain undercurrent of threat, an I-could-kill-you-all-so-don't-push-me menace that I thought worked pretty well.

edited 10th Jan '17 3:56:27 PM by Unsung

on the other hand, is vision enchantress show him is about him killing batman back there in the alley, showing that while he like is daughter, he dosen really want to get back.

The actual Suicide Squad comics differ from the film in that they are about protagonists who actually don't want to be there and have no vested interest in the success of the mission. By making the villain so overwhelmingly powerful the movie was trying to say that even those who identify as bad guys have something they are willing to fight for. The struggle is that the Suicide Squad is inherently episodic in nature, if they do their job right no one knows they were there. The Arrowverse version worked in that manner, as well as the fact the viewpoint character was the main character Diggle allowed the squad to be more wild cards. He's just barely keeping them together, while having Deadshot as the central character made it so even Flagg looked to him for support.

As for Will Smith, he did a good job of toning down the charm while presenting a strong physicality and anger to the character. He played the "That's how I cut and run" moment really well. The Arrowverse Deadshot was a bit too "cackling" for my taste, but I did like his limelight episode and how it played his story for tragedy as a soldier with PTSD.

I still can't get past the rationale for the squaddies in the movie.

Boomerang was literally "he survived an encounter with a meta-human." Yes, one who subscribes to Thou Shalt Not Kill and Boomerang put up zero fight. Harley is just "she's competent in a fight, and also craaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy. And, uh, you know. Might attract the Joker's attention but that doesn't matter." Slipknot made it to the team by merit of "owns a grappling hook gun" apparently.

Basically for them at least, their abilities really don't justify the risk of hiring criminals.

The rationale is that these are well-known and highly visible criminals whom nobody would suspect in being engaged in black ops. Full deniability and expendability on a short leash, a government administrator's dream come true. Same goes for using them for this particular assignment - they extract Waller, she kills her subordinates and blames it on them, any surviving squadmates get token sentence reductions and creature comforts in prison.

Otherwise yeah, it's a dumb idea for any other kind of critical operation, but so are most superheroics anyway. I kinda hope for the next G.I. Joe film or one of the films in Liefeld's Extreme Universe to have an action prologue showing the now cliched mechanical mook army charging at the heroes... and getting curb-stomped by proper use of conventional firearms, small unit tactics, and auxiliary fire support.

The argument is something that attacks the very foundation of the Squad, either you're on board or you're not. Part of the premise is that A) they are taking inspiration from the likes of The Dirty Dozen with using Boxed Crook to execute a dangerous mission and B) the novelty of taking B-D list villains and putting them on the same team. If they were all the likes of Deadshot or Croc the team would make more sense, but the more popular villains are famous more for their schemes and gimmick than their physical abilities. It should still be agreed that regardless of their apparent limitations, Harley and Boomerang prove to be skilled and violent individuals in the end, proving Waller right.

In a perfect world, we would have seen these characters in the background of a half dozen movies before the squad is put together, much like Avengers or the Arrowverse SS, but that would be even more difficult to pull off given the quality of actors they assembled and giving them minor roles before the starring role. It would be like Jeremy Renners cameo in Thor times 5.

There isn't much plausible deniability when those villains are surrounded by a group of soldiers for more than half of the movie.

Well there's also the fact that the purpose of the Squad changed in movie.

If it was simply black ops with villains: Only Deadshot, Katana, and Boomerang would make sense. Because everyone else is either mentally inept, visibly recognizable, or the powers can leave widespread damage difficult to cover up.

If it was to take down a rogue Superman: LOL

edited 12th Jan '17 8:13:29 AM by NoName999

Literally the only way I could see this Skwad taking down Superman would be if the rest of them distracted him long enough for Katana to sneak up and shank him with her magic sword. Diablo's vague-Aztec-magic could fight him for a while, but he's too flashy and noticeable - Superman's smart enough to immediately realize he's fighting someone he can't take down normally and take him from a distance instead.

Though they weren't made to literally take down Superman. They were made to take down (metaphorically) the "next Superman," or a being with great, inhuman power that turned out to be a danger to the public rather than an asset like Supes. Which, to be fair, they did.

@Robbie having a Razzle nomination: I mean, for the comic relief, the jokes were terrible and her performance didn't fit that.

It's not even a nomination yet...it is only the shortlist.

Never read Suicide Squad's comics (well except for the recent SS vs JL), and I know Joker Takeover is generally frowned upon...

...but rewatching the first trailer, I feel like this film would've been better if they'd just made Joker the antagonist. Make him the reason Waller is sending people she has to stick bombs into so that they follow her directives - maybe Joker stole somebody she doesn't want Batman looking into. Nerf Enchantress so that she can't just "teleport documents from halfway across the planet" or "divine Joker's location," or use Joker's new urban club owner criminal status to give him some kind of voodoo background that blocks Enchantress's powers, and then give him a gang of criminals/enemies for the squad to fight.

Just get rid of Enchantress and her brother out of the villain seat. But having Joker there A) provides emotional conflict for Harley, B) provides the same conflict that Deadshot had with him in Assault on Arkham (what of it?), and C) provides a reason for almost everyone else. Croc and Joker are from the same city. Joker's probably been around long enough to have beef with almost everyone on the team, which provides an easy conflict/incentive for the other members to go along, makes it personal.

Start with something relatively low-scale like Joker and work up to something like Enchantress, except turn Enchantress into Chemo.

Furthermore, to avoid "Joker takeover" have Harley or someone else actually succeed in killing him in this film. By this point in time Batman apparently stopped giving two sh't's about Joker (bigger fish to make bleed I suppose) so, I mean, why not?

edited 21st Jan '17 5:22:06 PM by Soble

Joker would've been way better, yeah. I liked Enchantress's design and Incubus's goopy combat tentacles and the way everything they touched looked kind of glitched out, but their whole doomsday plot was just so generic.

I'd have completely rewritten everything. Make Waller the big bad. Get rid of the enchantress entirely. You're supposed to be on the Squad's side, right?

Waller should propose the Suicide Squad. Most of the higher-ups accepted, except for one holdout.

So she sends the suicide squad to kill the holdout so the suicide squad itself can be approved. Instead of wheeling them out and giving them a proper briefing with tons of witnesses around that need silencing, she has a few select agents plant explosives and actually stage a prison break.

She tips all of them off that, hey hey, there's a big payout here, first come first serve! So half a dozen freshly-freed inmates descend on this poor guy's home, run into each other, maybe even try to kill each other at first, until someone (like Deadshot) smells something fishy about the whole situation.

The Suicide Squad realizes something's up, maybe one of them traces their source or a phone call or something, they track down Waller. Waller just calmly turns around, tells them they've been useful, thanks, bye. The Suicide Squad is suddenly surrounded by a SWAT team and they're taken back to prison.

Waller has a new meeting, with the one holdout dead due to a tragic robbery gone bad, and the Suicide Squad program is approved.

edited 21st Jan '17 11:29:56 PM by willyolio

I'd say Waller was already bad enough, in both senses of the word. What the DC films, Green Lantern included, have trouble grasping is that she's not just some generic government villain stirring up trouble for its own sake. Her backstory mirrors that of the Punisher, and even Batman in BVS. She's got every reason to try and control people that are or may turn dangerous, and while she may be ruthless, it takes a classic leap of logic to present her as dishonest; perish the thought for pragmatism to ever be portrayed in a positive light. Coupled with all but whitewashing the Squadmates themselves, who perform no villainous act whatsoever in the actual story, and it's clear what ridiculous lengths filmmakers went to in order to prop that theme.

Otherwise yeah, making the Joker the actual villain would've been great - it could still feature the team being deceived about their mission, it ramps up the Joker's reputation in the criminal world, and it presents a nice friends-or-abusive-lover decision for Harley at the end. I still wouldn't have him killed, though, not in this film. That's a task for Batman alone - enough with all the lame excuses saying otherwise. This Batman kills, and he should kill the Joker, even if the latter does turn out to be Jason Todd. Tragic - sure; necessary - definitely.

edited 22nd Jan '17 12:05:28 AM by indiana404

Ayer on what he would've done differently◊. The two big ones are he would've made the Joker the main villain instead of an Advertised Extra, and would've written a more grounded story instead of having them fight demons and witches and stuff. He also seems to acknowledge the storytelling issues.

edited 22nd Jan '17 9:14:35 AM by comicwriter

Hey, Ayers is pretty alright with his critique.

Or they could have used another ground based villain other than the Joker.

Because we know they wouldn't have the balls to kill off the Joker.

You can have a villain without killing them at the end (something superhero movies have been painfully slow to learn). The bigger problem is that from what little I saw of Leto's Joker doesn't fill me with any confidence.

Regardless, Ayer's point is still correct. It was a mistake to have them taking on a big magical threat like that, and it would've been better to have it be a heist job or military target of some kind.The stated goal of forming the Squad as a task force that could deal with the likes of Superman or the Justice League makes no fucking sense. How on Earth would Harley, Katana, Slipknot, Killer Croc, or Boomerang be of any use against someone on Superman's level of power?

edited 22nd Jan '17 9:36:17 AM by comicwriter

Why is killing off villains at the end a bad thing?

The million dollar question I've been asking for years now. Though I think in this case @NoName999 meant they wouldn't have the Squad in particular be the ones to kill the Joker.

Depending on the character there's still interesting stuff you could do with them in future installments.

Also makes doing a Legion of Doom style group much harder.