Self Demonstrating Folder Titles

I second that.

If they aren't verboten, then Drill Sergeant Nasty could be toned down and still funny.

I agree that the recently removed SDFT on Drill Sergeant Nasty were not funny.

If you think you can do that, then be my/our guest, but I'm not going to hold my breath. We've already seen numerous incarnations on that page and they were all terrible.

The first step would be finding the Drill Sergeant Nasty character as amusing. If it doesn't amuse you, then no selfdemonstrating of that page will be amusing. That's not an issue with the "joke".

I don't know about that. I'm fine with the DSN character— Full Metal Jacket is one of my favorite films, and I still thought those folder titles were problematic.

Same here.

I think expecting a DSN to be "amusing" is asking a bit much; they are not generally intended to be amusing — or even likeable — characters. I know that for me, the closest I have ever come to liking a DSN character is a rather awed admiration for their range of invective.

Which I think is why those folder titles grated — they weren't funny, they weren't amusing, and they weren't even very imaginative. They were just insulting and aggressive.

Isn't that what drill sergeants are, though?

What does that have to do with folder titles? Don't lose sight of the fact that the wiki is supposed to inform and entertain. If it's neither informative nor entertaining, there's no point in us having it. So saying "Drill sergeants aren't supposed to be funny" is just another reason not to write folder titles as if they were spoken by a drill sergeant. (Besides, what Drill Sergeant Nasty would be writing folder titles on a wiki anyway?)

edited 21st Apr '15 1:12:45 PM by SolipSchism

One that is really bored?

But I do agree with .

The core guideline for all content on the wiki is "Clear, concise, witty" in descending order of importance. Sacrificing either of the former purely to preserve a joke is a shaky prospect at best, and sacrificing both rarely if ever works.

So since I asked for a hand-raising session re: SDFTs on DSN, 5 users including myself have weighed in against, and 2 for (and one of those was lukewarm, and still suggested toning them down).

Prior to that, Discar and Ultimatum also weighed in against, which makes it 7:2 in favor of no SDFTs on DSN.

Is that enough of a consensus to settle it?

Edit: And that's 4:1 with 10 votes.

edited 21st Apr '15 2:41:29 PM by SolipSchism

I am also strongly in favor of keeping the primary articles free of self-demonstrating anything. That includes Drill Sergeant Nasty, to be clear.

edited 21st Apr '15 2:38:23 PM by Fighteer

This is how I feel, with a caveat that if it does not impact Clear and Concise then it's fine.

And I do mean does not impact, not it impacts it a little but it's totally worth it.

Like, I see no problem with all lowercase letters (I mean, the Grammar Nazi in me is screaming, but it's obviously a stylistic choice, and it's perfectly reasonable), or even the SDFTs on Cluster F-Bomb, though YMMV on that one since the "Fucking" does come first in several of the folder titles.

Is there any way we can make them "concise"? The recent edits pared them down to a sentence and kept the folder titles in front of the SD stuff.

No they didn't. I'm looking at the history right now.

Oh, right, the gym teacher bit. So is there any way to keep them to your tastes?

Gym teacher? What? 99% of the most recent iterations were "I've seen [Folder Title]s that were more X than you!" If nothing else, it's repetitive. Like, extremely repetitive, considering that there are over 30 folders on the page and they all looked exactly the same.

Also, I'm not in charge of this discussion, so "my tastes" aren't really all that important except insofar as they inform my vote. But it is pretty irritating when we have a 4:1 consensus on something and one person insists on trying to do things their way. That is not how a consensus works.

Fighteer saying there was a consensus mostly consisted of you complaining about how unfunny SD is and Discar saying it annoyed him. You had to call for the vote when I asked for it. Before that, I got about two people saying they'd vaguely supported it and Rodney saying a vague number of moderators supported it.

You keep saying they're not concise or funny or understandable, and you and the others have stated they'll allow it if it matches those rules, so is there any way to actually follow this? Also, calm down, buddy.

edited 24th Apr '15 11:46:37 AM by YungVenuz

Please don't call me "buddy". I'm already forming an opinion of you as somebody who isn't respectful of others or their opinions, and calling me "buddy" doesn't make you seem any more respectful.

A consensus doesn't usually require a formal vote because tropers generally don't make it their personal mission to perpetuate something even after it's been decided. Sure, if the decision was made informally by a few tropers and you disagree with it, you're welcome to voice your disagreement. It wouldn't be the first time a poor decision has been made and later reversed when the larger community became aware of it (because, let's be honest, a lot of these dedicated clean-up threads are frequented by only a few tropers).

What you're not welcome to do is unilaterally make edits that go counter to those decisions without discussing them first. The fact that you started this campaign by doing that has already made you out to be someone who isn't interested in what the community thinks.

I didn't have to ask for a vote, I decided to because it was obvious you weren't going to abide by any decision without some kind of formality to it. And I was even more right than I realized, because we had a vote and the result was clear and you're still pushing your agenda.

edited 24th Apr '15 12:38:19 PM by SolipSchism

You said the DSN change seemed like it might be one person finding its folder titles annoying, and I responded that no, many people feel that way, including some moderators. (Not to invoke any veneer of authority, but to point out that it's not some crackpot opinion held only by dissenters, but that some of the site staff have expressed it, too.) Please stop mentioning that I said anything if you are going to misrepresent my intended meaning.

You want a "ruling", but the culture here doesn't really operate on rules and rulings, not exactly. In the absence of a mod/admin mandate (and hopefully it is obvious that there isn't and won't be one here), we usually go by general agreement (that is, by consensus), and there seems to be general agreement that making DSN's folder names normal was a good edit.

edited 24th Apr '15 9:49:29 PM by rodneyAnonymous

I would advise testing any change to the folder titles here, instead of editing the page itself.

No need to get upset over a wiki, friendo. :) In either case, I was confused because the only post pertaining to that thread was just Discar saying the page buggged him, so the recent 'consensus' clarified things, even if it was done after my probation. Thanks!

Will do. The real challenge is keeping it concise for the thread.

edited 25th Apr '15 2:49:46 AM by YungVenuz

..."Friendo"?

Well, in any case, rA did a better job of explaining it than I think I have been doing.