Snowclone: Dueling Shows,Dueling Movies,Dueling Games

This all originated earlier today when I decided to do a YKTTW called Dueling Bands/Musicians (The Beatles vs. The Rolling Stones, Metallica vs. Megadeth, The Backstreet Boys vs. N*SYNC, and the like) after reading through the three articles mentioned above. Eventually, after a considerable period of thought, I decided that not only was my YKTTW unnecessary, so were the above three tropes. Personally, I feel that all three should be placed under a single page called something like "Dueling Works" or "Dueling Artists". This would not only eliminate the three redundant pages, but also allow other works (comic books, musicians/bands, manga, literature) to be listed without having to create separate pages for them.

I apologize if my phraseology is confusing and would appreciate any feedback on this.

You make a good point. It doesn't make sense to make a new trope for every media. I support this merge. All of these seem to be the same trope but with a different media. Dueling Movies, Dueling Games, and Dueling Shows are redundant.

They all even use the same formatting.

edited 2nd Sep '14 5:49:07 PM by shimaspawn

Thanks. Problem is, I'm not sure how we'd go about merging them. Maybe It can be done by making a YKTTW that has those pages as subpages, but my issue is how anime and manga should be handled: should anime remain under the heading of "Shows" and manga be lumped with comic books under "Manga & Comics," or should they be put in the same category like they are on the rest of the wiki? This also applies, to a lesser extent, as to whether animation (western & eastern) and newspaper comics should have their own categories, or be lumped with "Shows" and "(Manga &) Comics," respectively.

This is a pretty classic Lumper Vs Splitter thing. Generally speaking, unless you can demonstrate a problem with the way we're doing it now (misuse, not thriving, etc) it's probably not worth the effort to change it. (That's true of all Lumper Vs Splitter stuff, not just this particular issue.) As the Lumper Vs Splitter page notes, though, making a supertrope/index page (if one doesn't exist already) is probably a good idea.

edited 2nd Sep '14 6:26:10 PM by NativeJovian

This isn't so much a lumper vs. splitter thing as this is the only trope where we have a different trope for every media. It goes completely against our wiki policies on the matter.

I agree; having Dueling Works as the central page and sub-paging it by media seems like a reasonable route to take.

My contribution: Dueling Movies should redirect to DuelingWorks.Film not to Main.Dueling Works, and a similar pattern for the rest of the pages.

I can agree with that suggestion. If we do that, we really just need to merge the descriptions for the main page and add subpages as examples come in.

edited 2nd Sep '14 7:49:17 PM by shimaspawn

So, let's get started.

Alright then, I'll start a YKTTW.

YKTTW isn't really the place to start when we have an existing trope. If you want to do it to gather general examples maybe, but a merge crowner is probably the first place.

How would I go about doing a merge crowner?

I've hooked a single-prop crowner; did I sum it up right?

Merge in the way @7 indicated.

Calling for the merge.

That's quite possibly one of the most consensus heavy crowner a I've seen. Does someone want to write a merged description?

Are we going to leave the existing pages are redirects?

I think redirects to the media specific subpages makes the most sense since we already know we can't merge this all into one page. It's just too big.

Makes sense.

Besides, it was mentioned and discussed earlier as well.

Snow clone implies they use the same words to describe something different. These pages use the same words to describe something similar. SO they are not snow clones.

Heel–Face Turn and Face–Heel Turn, those are some snow cloned tropes if you really want to tackle the issue, as most examples are not faces or heels, or even anything remotely really close to being synonymous such as rudos, opposing sports teams, ect.

edited 11th Sep '14 8:37:16 AM by Cider

Cider, we're way past that. We're merging.

Objection!

I mean...

Stella!

I mean...

Hang on a minute, I don't want to needlessly hold something so apparently straightforward but the media pages have genre subpages and all those subpages are in a namespace of their media type so you have DuelingGames.Fighting Game and Dueling Movies.Comedy and the like.

How do we deal with a third level of separation? Due to the format and content, the pages are large enough that the extra split level is needed but then you still want the two levels of division to be clear. We can try adapting the titles- Fighting Game is clear, Comedy Series and Comedy Film can be separate pages.

But I think it would be easier if we just kept the media names-Dueling Games, Dueling Movies- put it on an index on the supertrope page. They are the clearest, shortest names, all the wicks use them already so it's what they are going to be called.

Alphabetic split. That is the usual method nowadays when you have to split example sections that were already split by medium again.