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eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#1: Jul 21st 2014 at 12:18:06 PM

For the most part, this site is taking the audience point of view, indulging in the depiction of a trope, its relation to other tropes and finding examples in works.
However, there is another angle which I have come to find intriguing but rarely dealt with on here. The question, why a certain trope is being used and what makes it so effective. This of course not not easy to determine, but if there are authors amongst the crew, it would be great to gather their insight and perhaps turn tv-tropes into a reference book for writers.

  • An example where this works already: Informed Attribute
    This trope has a nicely outlined explanation of why this trope came into being: exposition instead of lengthy demonstration of an attribute. This helps the author to cut down on screentime.

  • An example where this information is lacking or hard to see: Mutually Assured Destruction
    Why is this setup being used? Perhaps for suspense. Whatever it may be, it is hidden within long paragraphs.

Three things I want to raise attention to:

  • It would be nice if trope description could handle the writer perspective more clearly (perhaps in a separate paragraph). Of course, it is not easy for us laymen to determine the underlying purpose of a trope, but we could at least consider it.
  • Not being able to find a reason for why a trope is being used in storytelling can point to the fact that it may actually not be a screenwriter tool but something else. Perhaps it is just my view of what "trope" constitutes.
  • After some time, we could actually start grouping/indexing tropes after their storytelling purpose (e.g. plot-streamlining, tension-building, emotional manipulation, continuity, plot development, etc.) and ... behold ... create something of a functional value.

If this has been considered already, I simply missed it.

edited 21st Jul '14 12:19:53 PM by eroock

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#2: Jul 21st 2014 at 12:22:56 PM

I suspect that the reason for that is that far more fans than creators edit pages on TV Tropes. But yeah, a trope description should indicate reasons why a trope is used.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#3: Jul 21st 2014 at 12:29:24 PM

Ideally, the narrative role of a trope will be discussed in its description. In practice, it's up to tropers to write it in. It won't happen by osmosis.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#4: Jul 21st 2014 at 1:17:59 PM

If this angle has been neglected so far, but is regarded as essential, why not raise more awareness for it?

Also, I advocate for a more formal approach where

  • the different "narrative roles" (to be established) have index pages of their own and are more distinguishable from actual trope pages (new name space?)
    • E.g. the index for Exposition is already in place. However, Exposition is just one tool to streamline a work, so it seems there is still another layer on top, where Exposition and let's say Distillation (new index for things like Adaptation Distillation, Compressed Adaptation) are grouped together to form Streamline The Plot. I am not an expert, but there seems to be some kind of hierarchy that still wants to be explored.
  • there should be another meta index, listing all the main tools a writer has at his disposal. Or is there such a thing already?
  • the mentioning of these roles on trope pages should be encouraged.

edited 21st Jul '14 3:28:50 PM by eroock

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#5: Jul 21st 2014 at 1:21:20 PM

I don't consider it "essential" in the sense that you're talking about.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#6: Jul 21st 2014 at 1:55:39 PM

Seems like I got carried away here. tongue

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#7: Jul 21st 2014 at 6:10:51 PM

I've always looked at tropes as being a writers toolbox, and for the most part write examples and descriptions from that perspective. It is almost guaranteed that a writer has to understand story form and function in order to write anything, and the best writers are the ones aware of what tropes they are using and why they are using them.

But on the other hand it doesn't matter how careful you are as a writer, some tropes and accidental/incidental and may not be intended, and the collaborative effort on most works of art mean not everyone is on the same page. On that idea we shouldn't write tropes according to "This is WHY a trope is used" because it is presumptuous to assume all writers are thinking the same thing. The best we can do is offer suggestions as to why a trope is used the way it is.

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#8: Jul 22nd 2014 at 2:06:41 PM

You have a point there.

rexpensive Since: Feb, 2014
#9: Jul 22nd 2014 at 3:35:55 PM

I have always felt pointing out why the trope is being used and to what effect is necessary for a really solid example. Without that examples lists always just look like lists of "things that happened (in fiction)" to me.

FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#10: Jul 22nd 2014 at 4:10:44 PM

Feels pretty essential to me. We're talking about always describing what the storytelling purpose of the trope is, right? Yup. Super essential.

If you come across one that doesn't have that explained, it needs to be fixed. Otherwise it is just something that shows up a lot.

The question then becomes "Why does it show up a lot?" There probably is a good reason, unless it is just titillation. Which is a storytelling purpose, I guess, but not a particularly interesting one.

edited 22nd Jul '14 4:14:44 PM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#11: Jul 24th 2014 at 3:03:50 PM

I've long thought that narrative purpose needs to be much more strongly emphasized in the YKTTW guidelines. The closest thing I've seen is the widely-misinterpreted "Chairs".

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#12: Jul 25th 2014 at 2:04:40 PM

I feel there is some momentum here. smile What's the next step?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#13: Jul 25th 2014 at 2:06:19 PM

Bringing up and fixing problem pages is the first thing to make in such situations.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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