Mass Effect General Discussion (spoilers)

Perfectly valid, but, in 3, we even have guests such as Wrex, Mordin and Legion speaking over the intercom with other shipmates. In 2, we don't see any kind of discussion, and that makes the characters swallower that they are. The only one who seems to care about the other characters is Kasumi, and Mordin if romancing somebody.

Then there's Garrus only talking about calibrations.

edited 20th Apr '15 5:39:56 AM by Eriorguez

To be honest, I think BW simply did not have the idea of doing such a thing. In all their games, squadmates were stuck in their location, so the PC knows where to find them. Having them move from one location to another can be weird if some crew members have specific abilities or conversations you want to have - players can be really dumb when they don't find something in the place it is supposed to be.

Imagine that you want to talk to Tali about her loyalty mission, but she isn't in engineering, and you look around the ship for ten minutes before finding out that she was comparing the nude pictures of Shep she took by hacking the camera of his cabin with the ones Kasumi got when she sneaked in. Some players may be frustrated.

Now that 3 gave us so many epic conversations between squadmates (or even other crew members - Joker, Chakwas, Adams) I'm sure they will stick with that in the future. I don't think they will drop a good idea such as this one - drunk Tali, Tali/Garrus shipping or Javik trolling are among the most popular elements in the game.

Re: Thane; it's not that I dislike Thane. I don't hate any of the characters in my don't care list. I just don't care. there's a difference.

Re dialogue; the new map system in me3 is probably the reason it works so well. If Tali is not in engineering you can pull up the map and look for her, then go where her name is listed.

edited 20th Apr '15 5:51:38 AM by CalamityJane

My main issue with the Loyalty missions were the prevalent Mommy Issues theme almost half the squad had.

Miranda I would be fine with, especially because her Dad became plot-relevant. Jacob, Thane, Samara and Tali didn't I would prefer not having anything to do with family.

It becomes plot relevant for Tali in 3 too. Rael's research is used by Xen to create his geth communication jammer, which leads to the entire Rannoch arc. And Tali becomes (usually) an Admiral in turn because her father was one.

edited 20th Apr '15 5:57:31 AM by Julep

Maybe I shouldn't have used, "plot-relevant" as a reason then. What my point comes down to is, variety is the spice of life. I didn't need to see a Mommy Issues plot in 5 side quests.

Oh I agree with that. It's just that in those two particular characters, I think it is actually important considering their personal history and character development, while it would have been possible to humanize Thane or Samara without resorting to family issues.

Samara's issues also become plot relevant: she introduces us to Ardat Yakshi, and thus sets up Banshees.

And Jacob's could have been about a former Corsair member instead of his dad.

Tali already had some baggage with her father back in 1.

Still, take a look at Garrus, he has shit going on with his family (and very likely a dead mother between 2 and 3), but it is all subtle. Agreeing with Jacob's working better with a corsair deal rather than his father, but I don't know how the pre-2 Jacob/Miranda dynamic quite worked to get a good idea of how fitting it was.

Bioware really needs to find better character BACKSTORIES than something relating to parental problems. They're all just variations on the same theme; the parent was abusive, almost always through neglect or controlling the child's life.

Garrus - Dad was a hard ass and controlling of his career, otherwise nonexistent in his life

Tali - Dad was also a hard ass and didn't show Tali love.

Thane - Dad who ran off to do his job and tries to make up for it.

Samara - So distraught with her daughters medical condition she becomes a Justicar and never speaks to them again while intending to kill her runaway daughter

Miranda - Test tube baby, Dad was insane and controlling

Jacob - Dad went missing ten years ago and presumed dead, turned out to have gone insane.

edited 20th Apr '15 6:21:29 AM by CalamityJane

Grunt - Also a test tube baby, never knew his possibly-insane father.

Jack - Well, the Jack we know was "created" by Cerberus...

EDI - Another "child" of Cerberus who rebelled against them.

Vega - Dad was a cunt.

Liara - Dad was never present, mother was... Benezia.

Ashley - Dad died in disgrace, so did Grandfather.

Wrex - Dad tried to kill him.

Legion - Entire race has daddy issues.

So, let's get a count: Kaidan, Zaeed, Kasumi, Javik. That's four squadmates without daddy issues.

I wouldn't count Vega. He says his dad was a jerk, only to forget about it and never mention it again.

But I see your point.

Actually Kaidan did have at least some daddy issues considering his parents disowned him for being biotic and shipped him off to Bat.

And honestly I can't see Zaeed or Kasumi NOT having some shit with their parents. And Javiks parents probably died pretty early in his life.

On ME2, companion missions, and its story: honestly, I think it had the weakest overarching narrative of the three games. It's not just that's it's a low-key story, those can be perfectly fine, but there's no real link between them and the main story, they don't really have much of a thematic tie, and most of them could be removed at ease.

That's not to say the individual stories themselves aren't well-written, and most of the characters definitely are, but I think generally speaking character studies still need to be worked into a game properly, not noticeably hanging out of a main plot that's irrelevant to them. The idea of "preparing" for the Collectors would work more if the Collectors were relevant, or even a distant shadowy overcast, to any of the missions, and if you did any other missions (rather than just quick-upgrades) relating to boosting your ship or whatever.

Dragon Age II, for all its flaws, handled it a lot better, though none of the individual missions really scream out to me. It helped that Hawke, while caught up in all sorts, was ultimately just another citizen, and had their own personal life as part of the story.

edited 20th Apr '15 7:47:55 AM by Lavaeolus

@Didact: ...the only recorded appearance of either of Kaidan's parents is in Mass Effect: Foundation, where his father is depicted as a pretty good father and person.

Yeah, the only really big flaws in 2 are the lack of squadmate interaction and the somewhat weak story (as well as assorted stuff like the annoying mining minigame). The combat could use some improving too, I suppose.

3 did that pretty well. The unlocking minigames end up becoming repetitive tho.

Huh I didn't read that. I was going off of what Kaidan said in the first game.

He didn't say anything to the effect in the first game either. Just that the instructor is an asshole.

M Bioware writing falls far short of the excellence I've heard people claim it has. When you find yourself dealing with the third character with parental neglect problems while faffing about the Galaxy "preparing" to fight a threat that only actively harms humanity and no other species, on the grounds they're related to the reapers? Definitely not the most compelling premise.

I also don't like how the collectors are built as some huge threat, but they're considered as just a human problem. I mean, if the collectors continue to abduct humans, when will others step in if humanity cannot protect itself? Why doesn't any other species led it's hand in empathy?

edited 20th Apr '15 9:58:56 AM by CalamityJane

Kaidan wasn't disowned by his parents. He was brought to B Aa T because he was a biotic and that's where biotics were brought. In the games, the only time he mentions his family was in 3, when he talks about his parents' lake house in BC. The impression I got from his comments is that he actually had a very positive relationship with his family.

As far as squadmate interactions being difficult because the game is from Shepard's perspective, it's not that hard. They could've thrown in some more scenes similar to the Miranda/Jack and Tali/Legion conflicts: After a mission, you get an automatic scene where Shepard walks in on two characters talking. It doesn't need to be a big conflict - it could be something like Jacob and Garrus debating whether a Sniper Rifle or a Shotgun is better, and they ask Shepard's opinion. Or Miranda is helping Mordin in his lab, and they're both spouting off a bunch of technobabble. Or Tali and Jack are bonding over their hatred of Cerberus. Simple shit like that. You could do tons of scenes like that.

Beyond that, just put more banter during missions. Put some conversations on the Citadel, Omega and Illium. Also, when you have conversations with NP Cs in those places, let the squadmates have some lines. When you talk to Liara, if Tali or Garrus are with you, have them say hello, maybe share a quick hug. If you talk to Anderson with Jacob in your party, let Jacob say how much he admires Anderson. Shit like that.

This is part of why I always say 2 had too many squadmates. Fewer squadmates would've made that sort of thing so much easier to do.

edited 20th Apr '15 10:09:03 AM by Tiamatty

Oh, that annoyed me to no end, bringing Tali and Garrus to Tuchanka and Illium, and no reaction whatsoever from Wrex and Liara.

Meanwhile, the Virmire Survivor will adress Tali working with Cerberus if brought to Horizon, despite that being impossible without a Save Editor or mods...

Freaking consoles, having the game split in several discs and therefore railroading your party in all versions.

Still, even with that many squadmates, it could work fine. Just writting small snippets of text would do the trick.

Heck, Citadel is a thing. It was possible.

edited 20th Apr '15 10:36:41 AM by Eriorguez

Uh, buddy, the only console that did that was the 360.

And forced the rest of the versions to go with the limitations it imposed in its version. Still, still applies.