General Japanese Culture Thread

Does anyone know aobut anything about japanese postmodernism? IT seems that it is still possible to get certain text wrong because you need to be a bit more curious astute to get the message or if there is any at all.

, X3 The thing that stands out the most to me is how whiter everyone is made.

Japan — and Asian cultures in general — value pale skin as a sign of beauty the same way the West values tans.

Dude, only So Cal value tans. Them, and those sailboat-abusing East Coast preppies.

Deep golden-brown tans, maybe, but generally speaking the West prefers its beautiful people to have a healthy glow, while the ideal beauty in the East is as close to lily-white as they can manage. To the point where women in China and Japan will use parasols when they go outside to avoid direct sunlight, the same way women in North America and Europe will go to the beach for the express purpose of soaking up some sun.

Check out the description of But Not Too White. Basically, pale skin used to be a status symbol because it meant you were wealthy enough to avoid outdoor manual labor — but once indoor white collar work became the norm for the middle class, the trend reversed itself, and having a tan became the ideal because it meant that you had the free time to lie in the sun (and, in certain climes, the disposal income to travel somewhere where lying in the sun with minimal clothing won't result in hypothermia).

In much of the East, the economic situation is still closer to the former than the latter — though Japan is rather ahead of the rest of the region in that respect, they're still a good half-century or so behind Western culture in terms of when indoor work in factories and offices overtook outdoor work as farmers and laborers as the standard lower/middle class profession. Of course, as far as I'm aware, the ganguro thing was exclusively Japanese, but my understanding is that that was mostly a fad thing, rather than indicative of an actual culture shift.

edited 30th Mar '15 12:07:28 AM by NativeJovian

Um. You do realise that Japan had larger urban sprawl with decent plumbing than any given country in Europe... from about the C11th onwards, right?

This also included a larger proportion of the population working in the trades and arts rather than off the land for a lot longer?

In short, Japan has been doing urbanised luxury for a while.

The sort of thing I'm talking about takes more than just "having cities". Cities have been around for thousands of years, but the attitude shift I'm talking about is a product of the industrial revolution. Later than that, really — it didn't kick in in the US until post-WWII — but it was the shift from agricultural labor as the norm to industrial labor as the norm (plus the rise of the middle class, with its disposable income and leisure time) that made it happen.

Apparently, Japan is getting there in terms of admitting to war crimes.

Shame that those on other sites, rather than take this as showing that Japan does have inhabitants that are remorseful for their actions, instead view this as proof that they deserved atom bombs and more.

They better have good security, if they don't want that place being burned to a crisp, much like what was described here.

Is it true that Japanese society discriminates against those with physical and/or mental disabilities due to considering their conditions "shameful" and "burdensome" on their families?

as far as I know; Yes. Disabilities are definitely taboo.

Then do you think this fanfic is doing an accurate portrayal of said discrimination? Just curious, that's all; there's particularly this one bit where an OC neighbour of the main Cast Herd that they used to think highly of shocked them by casually asking the crippled female protagonist why she hadn't killed herself after her dismemberment to save her family the trouble of her "burden".

I wouldn't know, but that sure sounds like something an elderly Japanese person might say. But only in the sense of a "racist old grandpa" with opinions that younger people only tolerate out of respect for their age.

edited 10th Apr '15 9:30:19 PM by Kayeka

Say, what's the difference between ninja magic and non-ninja magic, within the context of stories set strictly in Japan? (i.e. non-ninja mages are practitioners of traditional brands of Sino-Japanese mysticism, such as onmyoudou.) I can't figure out what makes "ninpou" (or whatever it gets called within a particular story) so special that a distinction is always made between it and "regular" Japanese magic.

edited 22nd Apr '15 10:59:29 AM by MarqFJA

I don't think "ninpo" was ever actually a thing. Ninja were generally not the super assassins fiction depict them as, but basically a bunch of dudes that took advantage of the fact that samurai wouldn't give anyone in peasant clothing a second (or even first) look, and utilised combat tactics others would consider "dishonourable" (IE the good common sense not to attack head-on). I haven't done much research, but they never seemed like the kind of people that would be big on mysticism.

Them having magic powers was something people made up to go along with regular horror stories about the unclean ones from the hills, and the ninja clans were perfectly happy to have such rumours circulate about them.

Though I do like to think that, at some point in time, a ninja was being chased by samurai, threw his clothes on an old scarecrow as a quick distraction, and that the samurai actually stupid enough to fall for it (possibly even striking the scarecrow) blamed it on magic.

So, all in all, in my very much non-expert opinion/guess, the difference is that onmyoudou was something that was actually practised, while ninpo was something the people made up.

edited 22nd Apr '15 11:29:08 AM by Kayeka

Going by the Wikipedia page, some ninja clans were not only happy to have these rumors circulate, but also even disseminated them themselves. Also, some of their supposedly super natural powers were just regular warfare tactics with fancy names.

But, yeah, actual historical ninjas didn't seem to be particularly big on actual mysticism. They just did regular spy and assassination stuff. But they were keen on letting other people believe they have powers, so the legends only grew with time.

That said, not everything related to mystical ninpo is made up. The classic "hand seals"(Kuji-kiri) is part of real beliefs that originated on Taoism.

edited 22nd Apr '15 1:05:46 PM by Heatth

Yeah, but... Within the context of Japanese fiction, why are the Japanese so insistent on treating ninpou like it's a whole different ballpark from actual magic, and maybe even from Ki Attacks?

Kind of like how Western magic has all sorts of subdivisions.

Except that AFAIK, ninpou has never been called by or lumped under any of the usual Japanese words for magic in the generic sense (i.e. mahou, majutsu, madou and others).

edited 22nd Apr '15 2:38:30 PM by MarqFJA

Have you been watching Ninninger?

Honestly I'd argue its just a narrative construct so that ninjas or their analogues in the story remain unique even in settings where other forms of fuctional magic exist.

That's also because Mahou tends to be used for western-style magic. Although not always, since the word "youma" contains the same "ma" as in "mahou," and youma are a Japanese concept, but generally Mahou comes from a more generic western magic, rather than the very specific, Taoist mysticism of ninpo and related stuff.

Even then it can get confused. Fairy Tail calls it "Mahou" but it really functions most like elemental Ki.

Is there are good resources for Japanese magic tropes?

Good question. "Japanese magic" comes either from Taoist Onmyoudou as Marq mentioned, or from old Shinto beliefs. Searching Onmyoudou and Shinto mysticism could probably yield some good resources.

@Marq,

Think on how "western" media always paint miracles/divine magic as a completely separated thing from real magic^note ]which is kind funny when you consider most mysticism stuff came from religion. This is very blatant in RPGS inspired by D&D. Japanese media, meanwhile, are much more likely to lump religions magi with other flavors of magic (except ninja magic, that is it).

Yeah, but miracles and divine magic are treated that way because it's explicitly or implicitly the case that their source is divine in nature, i.e. they happen because of either Divine Intervention or Super-Empowering by a deity. I've yet to see a Japanese anime/manga/movie/video game set in the real world where ninja magic is given an actual source (other than the vague "a group of tengu taught the first shinobi the martial arts of ninjutsu and the magical arts of ninpou" approach, which only explains how they learned them, not what powers them).