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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#476: Sep 25th 2014 at 7:05:08 AM

Why was Beijing so hung-up about keeping control of Tibet that they invaded the place in the first place? What did they gain from doing so?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#477: Sep 25th 2014 at 7:07:28 AM

Ego, effectively. There are lots of properties people hold on that aren't worth it.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#478: Sep 25th 2014 at 7:11:43 AM

[up][up]

Tibet was once a tributary/puppet/vassal state/part of China (delete as historically applicable). Britain poked about in Tibet before WWI, but eventually decided it wasn't worth the bother. When China fell apart during the 1912-51 era, the Dalai Lama declared independence.

In essence, Tibet made a bid for freedom when China was distracted, and the moment China had its shit back together it brought Lhasa firmly back under its heel. Tibetan independence was a painful reminder of a long period of Chinese impotence and strife. Of course, they don't overmuch care that actual people live in their geopolitical comfort blanket.

EDIT: In fairness to the PRC, before they showed up Tibet was a backwards feudal society, complete with serfdom and slavery. Its just debatable if being lashed to Mao's China was any real improvement.

edited 25th Sep '14 7:14:44 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#479: Sep 25th 2014 at 9:34:53 AM

It comes down to history. When the Beijing dynasty was strong, Tibet was part of China. When the dynasty was weak, it wasn't. Mao needed to be seen as strong, and conquering Tibet is one traditional method for indicating that the Mandate of Heav—I'm sorry, I mean the will of the people has descended upon the Red Dynasty.

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#480: Sep 26th 2014 at 4:56:25 PM

There's another thing that bugs me about the PRC: It's a self-proclaimed communist state, right? And communist ideology considers religion as a whole to be "the opium of nations", and rejects all religion as silly superstition, i.e. communism is anti-religiously atheist, right?

Then what's the deal with them acting like the Dalai Lama's reincarnation thing is real (because how else would you explain them claiming ultimate and indisputable power over approving the next titleholder)?

PS: Let us avoid debating the realness of Dalai Lama reincarnation. I don't see any actual point in such a debate in the first place, actually.

edited 26th Sep '14 4:56:39 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#481: Sep 26th 2014 at 5:29:15 PM

They're pretending it's real so they can set up a puppet.

Cause fuck yo hypocrisy claims, biatch.

edited 26th Sep '14 5:29:41 PM by Ekuran

editerguy from Australia Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#482: Sep 26th 2014 at 6:30:40 PM

[up][up]That's like saying anyone who recognises the Pope's authority over the Vatican has to believe in Catholicism, isn't it? It's just a matter of realism accepting that religious roles are authoritative, it doesn't matter if they're based on a 'true' religion or not.

edited 26th Sep '14 7:13:28 PM by editerguy

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#484: Sep 27th 2014 at 4:50:27 AM

[up]Singapore is South Asia, not East Asia.

murazrai Since: Jan, 2010
#485: Sep 27th 2014 at 5:13:26 AM

[up]Strictly speaking, it is Southeast Asia.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#486: Sep 27th 2014 at 5:16:04 AM

One could argue it's in the intersection of both.

The South Asian thread mostly consists of India and its neighbors. Also, Singapore's population is prominently Chinese ancestory, and the area speaks English and Mandarin (along with Malay and Tamil.)

I don't think it's reasonable to think the city-state fits in with the East Asian discussion, since there's no Southeast Asian discussion.

edited 27th Sep '14 5:16:45 AM by PotatoesRock

batter from Singapore Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#488: Sep 27th 2014 at 5:43:37 AM

Right, the film interviewing the political exiles. I do believe people will be able form their own opinion about the subject but you know...Singapore government.

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#489: Sep 30th 2014 at 5:31:29 AM

Is Xi Losing Control of China's ‘Peripheries’?:

s tens of thousands of activists continue to defy the authorities in Hong Kong by occupying entire city blocs in the heart of the city, and with weekly reports of escalating violence in restive Xinjiang, the central government in Beijing seems to be losing its grip on what the Chinese regard as the “peripheries.” Recent comments by President Xi Jinping about yet another piece in China’s puzzle of instability—Taiwan—suggest that the leadership may be panicking.

Before we proceed, it’s important to point out that the two territories and Taiwan are different issues altogether: The first two are politically part of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) while Taiwan is a self-ruled entity operating under its own set of rules and constitution, that of the Republic of China (ROC). Furthermore, Taiwan is democratic and was never part of the PRC, whereas Hong Kong was “returned” to the PRC in 1997 and can only aspire to a democratic system, a situation that is at the heart of the current impasse in the former British colony, while Xinjiang is ruled with a mix of intermarriage, displacement, and repressive policies under a veneer of economic development and “ethnic harmony.”

Still, fundamental differences notwithstanding, Beijing has proposed—imposed, rather—a one-size-fits-all solution for Hong Kong and Taiwan, known as the “one country, two systems,” or 1C2S, model. Despite the model showing cracks in the one territory where it has been applied, as evidence by Hong Kong’s angry response to China’s White Paper on 1C2S in June, Beijing is adamant that it is equally viable as an instrument by which to bring about the “re-unification of China,” or, to put in terms that better reflect reality, the annexation of Taiwan.

The 1C2S formula has been implicit for years as relations across the Taiwan Strait ebbed and flowed. Nevertheless, the Chinese leadership had until recently been cunning enough to know that stating this outright would be counterproductive, aware that 1C2S had very little appeal among Taiwan’s 23 million people, even those who tend to vote for the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT), a party that generally identifies more and favors closer relations with China. Consequently, while 1C2S remained a constant for China, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) in its engagement with its counterparts in Taiwan adopted a seemingly more conciliatory position and agreed to negotiate under the so-called “1992 consensus,” whereby both sides agreed there is “one China,” but differed on its interpretation. The creative formula was vague enough to allow for the substantial rapprochement that has occurred between Taipei and Beijing since the election of President Ma Ying-jeou of the KMT in 2008.

Beyond serving as a platform for dialogue, the 1992 consensus was good enough for the Chinese, as it succeeded in halting what it feared most—a gradual slide in Taiwan towards de jure independence. For all his faults, Chinese president Hu Jintao, Mr. Xi’s predecessor, showed patience on the question of Taiwan. As long as things moved in the “right” direction—and there is no doubt that the 20 or so agreements signed between the two sides since 2008, added to the explosion in cross-strait tourism and exchanges, was the “right” direction insofar as Beijing is concerned—Hu adopted a “go slow” approach to unification, which largely succeeded in drawing Taiwan ever closer into its orbit without unduly alarming the Taiwanese population.

It was only a matter of time before this well-calibrated balancing act by Beijing would come undone after Xi replaced Hu. There were plenty of warning signs, starting with China’s increasingly assertive behavior in the East and South China Seas and its more nationalistic, if not belligerent, tone on Sino-U.S. relations. Xi, who wasted little time ridding himself of his political opponents to arguably become the most powerful and ideological Chinese leader since Mao Zedong, is an impatient man. Consequently, whereas Hu was content with neutralizing Taiwan, Xi seems intent on dealing with the problem once and for all. And developments in Hong Kong, added to the Sunflower Movement’s occupation of Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan earlier this year—whose impact was not, despite Mr. Ma’s claims, short lived—appear to be fueling that impatience by raising the specter of the permanent “separation” of Taiwan from the “mainland.”

To put it simply, Xi seems to have run out of patience not only with Taiwan, but with President Ma’s KMT as well. Despite the rapprochement that has occurred under Ma since 2008, Beijing hasn’t been able to initiate overtly political talks about Taiwan’s future, which was the plan all along. With fifteen months left to his second and last term in office, Ma has probably delivered as much as he can to Beijing. His party is divided, Ma’s image has been severely hurt by the Sunflower, and whoever aspires to filling his seat in 2016 will, given electoral pressures, be compelled to adopt a more centrist position, which by default means imposing more brakes on cross-strait dialogue (at least during campaigning).

A Chinese government that understands the tremendous pressures facing Ma and the KMT at the moment would take a step back and wait for future opportunities. Inexplicably, Xi has done the opposite.

China's Hopeless Quest for 'Friends' and 'Enemies'.

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#490: Oct 2nd 2014 at 1:37:02 PM

South Korea Needs a Welfare State:

The 1997 Asian Financial Crisis (known locally as the “IMF Crisis”) hit South Korea particularly hard. In exchange for an International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout package, South Korea implemented structural adjustment policies. One such adjustment, made to the Labor Standards Act, introduced systems for rationalization at Korea’s biggest firms. The Act on the Protection, Etc., of Dispatched Workers was also implemented; this bill recognized the right of employers to hire temporary workers on short-term contracts. In short, employees became dispensable and employment uncertain. “Lifetime employment,” a short-lived phenomenon in the era of South Korean democracy, was over. The effects are now making themselves seen.

Earlier this week, Hankyoreh ran an article entitled “More than 2 million in S. Korea living as subcontractor workers.” The article can be read as a condensed history of post-1997 labor relations, or how the IMF crisis restructured South Korean society. The author notes that despite a full recovery from the crisis by 2003-2004, the restructuring of labor relations has generated a new problem. While businesses recovered lost capital, the issue of irregular employment has remained and, in many ways, been institutionalized.

The author of the Hankyoreh article doesn’t mention it, but what happened in South Korea in the late 1990s is not unique to Korea. The rise of “nonstandard work” is happening all across the world. Indeed, sociologist Gøsta Esping-Andersen, best known for his book The Three Worlds of Welfare Capitalism, has identified the increase of part-time and temporary work as a primary trend in post-industrial societies.

Global context and timing is important, because when something happens in world-history time tends to effect how it happens. For example, the timing of South Korea’s industrialization (“late” in historical time) meant that it needn’t worry as much about creation or innovation, and could instead focus its attention on “learning” or adopting existing technologies. This is a main contribution of Alice Amsden’s highly regarded study of South Korea’s industrialization, Asia’s Next Giant: South Korea and Late Industrialization.

The context and timing of Korea’s labor problem is not particularly good. The time in world history for welfare state expansion seems to have passed. When the rest of the developed world was expanding social safety nets and other welfare state policies, South Korea had only just hit its industrialization stride. Now, in South Korea’s post-industrial period, where employment uncertainty is on the rise and welfare protection needed, the global trend is towards retrenchment, not expansion, of social safety nets.

If there is one thing South Korea is known for, it is its interconnectedness to and dependence on global capitalism and the ideas that underpin it. As goes the world, so goes South Korea. It wasn’t just the fact that long-time opposition candidate and man-of-the-people Kim Dae-jung presided over the implementation of the IMF-backed adjustments; South Korea began its drift towards neo-liberalism many years before then. It began in the 1980s, when Korea was sending its bureaucratic elites to the United States for economic training; the 1980s just so happened to be the high point for neoliberal thought. It’s no coincidence, note Chang Ha-joon and Peter Evans, that the bureaucrats who were trained in the United States later dismantled their own bureaucracy (the Economic Planning Bureau). But it is ironic.

Of course, it needn’t be this way. In fact, political scientist Joseph Wong found in his comparative study of Taiwanese and South Korean health care systems that the “politics of democratic transition” lead to welfare state expansion in the immediate post-transition periods. Retrenchment isn’t inevitable. Governments must simply be incentivized to expand social policies — and willing to pay for it (i.e, raise taxes).

Not to generalize (every country is different) but: do the East and the West need it?

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#491: Oct 2nd 2014 at 1:53:06 PM

The Koreanist BR Meyers made an interesting point in one of his YT interviews: one thing that hampers the South in its dealings with the North is that there is not a strong identification with the state in SK in the same way there was in West Germany. Rather, Korean nationalism and patriotism remains predicated around loyalty to the race rather than the state. He suggests that a very powerful soft-power tool for Seoul would be to try and inculcate a West German national loyalty among the South Korean population.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (USA) (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#493: Oct 8th 2014 at 4:24:09 PM

TIL that South Korea has one of the best national anthems I've ever heard:

Democratic Korea is best Korea.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#494: Oct 8th 2014 at 6:16:27 PM

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea agrees with your statement! (For certain definitions of "Democratic", "People's", "Korea", "Republic", and indeed "of".)

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#495: Oct 8th 2014 at 6:25:09 PM

Remove naengmyeon remove naengmyeon yuo are worst Korean! Douglas MacArthur aliv in Korea! Douglas MacArthur making reunification of Korea! We are rich and have gold now because of FREEDOM. Yuo will get caught...

edited 8th Oct '14 6:25:21 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
SilasW A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#496: Oct 9th 2014 at 2:17:21 AM

You know Achae, I can still vaguely remember a time before you discovered Polandball. It was a much less fun time. tongue

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#497: Oct 11th 2014 at 12:54:44 PM

After Hong Kong, Macau?

Macau’s people first showed signs of a political awakening of its own in May 2014, when mass rallies forced the region’s chief executive to forfeit a controversial bill. The measure would have provided extravagant retirement packages for top officials and given the serving Macau chief executive immunity from criminal charges. In response, as many as 20,000 of Macau’s half a million citizens surrounded the territory’s legislature and demanded that the idea be scrapped, forcing Chief Executive Dr. Fernando Chui Sai On to heed their call. Many took time off from work to participate, realizing for the first time that political activism can lead to improved governance. As casino worker Ada Pun explained, before Macau’s people saw their Hong Kong counterparts as troublesome, “But this time, the Macau government is testing our bottom line … and we finally realised we could make a change if we stood united.” Rally organizer Sulu Sou Ka-hou called the abandonment of the unpopular bill a victory, but maintained that, “at the end of the day, the problem today stems from the undemocratic political system we have.”

The political influence of Hong Kong is also apparent. The city’s ongoing political unrest seems to have emboldened many Macau residents to take up the mantle of universal suffrage as well. This June, after Beijing dismissed as “illegal” Hong Kong’s unofficial referendum on democracy, which turned out 800,000 voters, Macau held its own unofficial referendum on the same question. This took place even as Macau’s own leader was “reelected” by the territory’s pro-Beijing election committee in a one-horse race. Of the nearly 9,000 people who cast their ballot, 89 percent cast a vote of no confidence in their chief executive, and 95 percent said they would prefer their leadership to be chosen through direct elections.

As it happens, this period of dissatisfaction with the political system is overlapping with a period of labor empowerment. On October 3, hundreds of dealers from MGM’s flagship casino went on strike to demand better wages and benefits, following a summer trend of large-scale labor demonstrations. A Morgan Stanley report projects continued labor shortages and increased casino employee bargaining power for several years to come, which may mean increased labor activism during this time. All of this coincides with ongoing political turbulence before Hong Kong’s chief executive election in 2017, which is already having a strong impact on Macau’s political consciousness.

This fusion of drivers over an extended period of time may very well create favorable conditions for massive political demonstrations, supported by Macau labor. It is important to remember that in China, workers have supported calls for democracy before. Tiananmen Square in 1989 was a perfect example of labor marching in support of political rights. In Hong Kong’s current protests, as many as 10,000 workers from all labor sectors have shown solidarity with the Occupy Central movement, adding further legitimacy to their political cause. The workers of Macau may eventually feel inspired to do the same as they witness their Hong Kong compatriots turning out by the thousands to support political freedoms.

For now, the people of Macau will likely look on from afar as the political future of Hong Kong plays out. Even so, Beijing and the world should not simply dismiss Macau’s people as apolitical in orientation, as they soon may gamble that the time to try their luck at democracy has arrived.

Just like the UK, Portugal will stand in the sidelines watching and saying nothing (because Chinese investments, yo!)

edited 11th Oct '14 12:55:10 PM by Quag15

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#498: Oct 16th 2014 at 2:46:26 PM

Xi calls for artists to create "moral art" Ironically he also calls for art to be "free from the pursuit of money",so in other words he wants artists to produce from "the soul",as long as that should is "patriotic." They also believes that Chinese art must become popular abroad,of course he blames it's lack of popularity,like some author of a awful fanfic,"they just don't get our art." No Mr Xi we do get your art,and it sucks. The only good Chinese art,ironically,is the stuff the CCP is trying to ban.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
editerguy from Australia Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#499: Oct 16th 2014 at 7:36:18 PM

[up]If he thinks that China is better off as a totalitarian dictatorship that's one thing, but in the modern world he has to accept that that involves stifling creativity to a degree that makes them uncompetitive. Either they're less totalitarian when it comes to media or they accept that people abroad will continue to ignore their stifled scene. Can't have it both ways.

I actually read an article while ago that Taiwan (remember, a country with 20 million compared to China's 1 billion+ population) has managed to dominate certain areas of China's television industry, even though Chinese censors are very leery of their content. You'd think Xi would figure out why.

Ironically, the Hong Kong democracy protests have led to art which will now get global attention.

edited 16th Oct '14 7:59:36 PM by editerguy

IraTheSquire Since: Apr, 2010
#500: Oct 16th 2014 at 10:04:03 PM

I somehow have a feeling that he does. It's just that from rumors (from my uncle/his friends) that there are those who oppose him in the polituro means that he cannot do anything much about it.

Edit: if The Other Wiki is right this guy might have something to do with it.

edited 16th Oct '14 10:08:19 PM by IraTheSquire


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