K. I'll edit the post. You're right.
Another article about trying to get decent jobs for people with autism.
Yes, decent jobs, since so many of us work menial jobs.
50 individuals?? They really need to step up the pace. However, SAP is not a non-profit organization, but in fact, a for-profit software company. So they're actually doing this not just out of the goodness of their hearts, but because they genuinely see value in autistic employees.
By 2020, SAP hopes that employees with autism constitute 1 percent of its workforce worldwide.
1% is more or less the estimated population that has autism, depending on whose estimates you go by. Bear in mind this consists of people ranging from the severely disabled and unemployable under any circumstances, to the employable yet ignored. Therefore, if 1% of their employees are on the spectrum, that would actually mean that they'll have hired a higher percentage of "high functioning" autistics than the percentage of the general population that fits this description. Which would be great.
No crap. It blows. This is the sort of thing that gets autistics to wonder what point there is in hard work and getting a degree if it doesn't seem to be rewarded for them. My dad liked to quote Temple Grandin saying "I know many autistics with college degrees, but few with jobs."
• concentrate on specific jobs for long periods of time with little distraction;
• organize projects; and
• recognize patterns and find errors in software programming and documentation that other employees may not see.
Velasco said SAP also has found employees on the autism spectrum have excelled in creative positions, and they are expanding their skill sets into surprising areas of business that the company had not even anticipated.
Yup, it's more of the "autistic people have special skills" thing. A positive stereotype that can be harmful for those who don't live up to it, though I'd rather people think of us in those terms than see us as nothing more than a burden and a liability.
Plus, with the evidence that autism is multiple conditions, it could very well be true that certain forms do have these skills at a greater rate than the general population, something that the "autism is only bad" crowd should pay attention to.
SAP starts its employee search with a call to the state office of rehabilitation services. These offices have contact with the families of autistic individuals who are interested in employment. The agencies can recommend which individuals might best fit the position SAP is looking to fill.
The interview itself is a full-day event, Velasco said. Rather than having the typical interview process, SAP hosts the job candidates for a “Lego hangout day.” Interviewees are given a box of Legos with the components necessary to build and program a robot, a list of instructions on how to build the robot and options for the workers to use their own creativity.
SAP observes the candidates' ability to follow instructions, solve problems and complete their tasks. According to Velasco, these methodologies for assessing a candidate's potential come from SAP's partner, Specialisterne, a Danish company that helps people with autism secure employment.
The goal of the interview day is to create a relaxed environment that helps to make sure the job applicant is comfortable, Velasco said. By easing potential causes of anxiety, he said, the company can see the full potential of the person.
Good. I honestly think the mainstream job interview process is crap. It's pretty much based around bullshitting your way through the "right" answers to open-ended questions. When job interviews often contain questions about hobbies and friends, it's the sort of thing that pretty much screws autistics and prevents them from getting jobs where that type of stuff doesn't matter anyway.
To complete the support circle, new employees also are put in touch with an “Autism at Work mentor”—a volunteer from the company who helps create and expand the social network of the new employee, Velasco said. Over the course of the program, SAP has found that these mentors are the go-to people when their new colleagues have questions about the organization, need advice on their career or just want someone to have lunch with, he said.
In addition to the company support circle, the state office of rehabilitation services gives the individual a “job coach” who is on-site for the first 90 days of employment to guarantee a bridge between the management team and the individual, and “to make sure everybody gets started on the right foot,” Velasco said.
It feels like accommodations, and I'm remembering how employers understandably don't want to do potentially costly or time-consuming accommodations. This company (remember, it's a for-profit company doing this, even though they're partnering with a non-profit for help on how) must really see a lot of potential value in autistic employees if they're going to these lengths. It makes me wonder how viable stuff like this is in other workplaces...
edited 25th Nov '14 1:28:22 PM by BonsaiForest
A nice butterfly
SAP?
is that SAP_SE as in Systemanalyse und Programmentwicklung?
Or another SAP? It is not clear there.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
SAP SE, yes.
A nice butterfly
That's funny.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Regarding the previous discussion of "are autistics more socially accepting than other groups" I'd be very surprised if it doesn't average out about the same. Sure, there are certain traits we have that can make us more accepting (if you don't grasp social mores in the first place, it's harder to be prejudiced against others who do the same for whatever reason) but we also have traits that can make us less so (tendency to believe everything we are told, cling to one bad experience, etc).
I've got a cousin who is both quite autistic and horribly racist towards black people. Why? Because his black stepfather put his mother in the hospital. That this is not how all black people behave is something that he just cannot get through his skull, and none of the coping skills he's learned are helping him work around it (in fact some of them, most notably a tendency to predict future social interactions based on how the last one went, are actively hurting his prospects). If there's a way to fix him, that's beyond me. Even exposing him to more people of colour isn't liable to work, because he goes in with his preconceived notions, and when you firmly believe that all members of "group X" want to hurt you, you'll find "evidence" of it no matter what.
Another guy I met at university, who was autistic, was so socially conservative that I had to stop dealing with him. He thought criminals should be executed because "criminal=pure evil" end of discussion. He hated gay people because he himself had been Mistaken for Gay (and called a faggot, etc) so many times that he'd internalized the notion that it was a terrible thing to be. He fully accepted MRA (sidenote: but I've always thought that should stand for Misogynistic Reject Alliance) beliefs because he'd been on the receiving end of a lot of nastiness about his inability to get laid, and because he thought that relationships were a normal part of life and that therefore women were denying him the ability to be normal. When he started stalking one of my friends—also autistic—I cut him off, because for all that I felt bad for him (still do) he was also a deeply unpleasant cesspool of toxic ideas.
Autistics run the gamut of personality types and beliefs. Sure we all have some things in common—most notably social impairment—but how we deal with those issues, and the kind of people we let them turn us into are vastly different. Again, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm betting that if you polled every autistic person in the world about their beliefs, averaged them out, and then compared them to the average beliefs of the human race as a whole, they would not be that different.
edited 25th Nov '14 5:05:25 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
I'd be very surprised if it doesn't average out about the same.
I would not be so surprised, mainly because, thinking about it, there is no reason for it to average out. A lot of prejudice and social acceptance factors are controlled by social influence and I am not seeing how or why such would have the same average in the population at large and in a group of people defined by impaired social interaction.
I'll note though that the study in question didn't have a big sample size (although far bigger than 2); I find it in general a problem that studies in ASD use such small sample sizes.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
V
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm sure the problem is finding suitable people in order to make a larger sample. They might not exist.
Winterbourne View report: Learning disability care 'failing'
NHS chief executive Simon Stevens has called for "radical changes" in care for those with learning disabilities. Sir Stephen is chief executive of the Association of Chief Executives of Voluntary Organisations (ACEVO) and chaired an independent group who compiled the report. Its recommendations are for the NHS, local government, regulators and the government. They include a framework to support people with learning disabilities and autism move out of hospitals and into the community.
Its other recommendations include:
- The introduction of a charter of rights for people with learning disabilities and/or autism and their families
- Giving people with learning disabilities and their families a "right to challenge" decisions and the right to request a personal budget
- A requirement for local decision-makers to follow a mandatory framework setting out who is responsible for which services and how they will be held to account
- A planned closure programme of "inappropriate" in-patient facilities
- Improved training and education for NHS, local government and service provider staff
- The founding of a social investment fund to build community-based services
Sir Stephen said the Winterbourne View "scandal" had "shocked the nation" and that had led to pressure to prevent such a case from happening again. Neglect and abuse of patients by staff at the Winterbourne View private hospital, near Bristol, was uncovered by BBC Panorama. Six people were jailed in 2012 and five given suspended sentences.
Sir Stephen added: "People are still angry and frustrated that more people with learning disabilities are being placed in institutional care than moved into the community.
"We urge immediate action, to close all Winterbourne-style institutions and ramp up community provision.
"We need a new charter of rights to empower people with learning disabilities and their families, and give them the right to challenge the system. We need that system to have the courage to act on these recommendations, and not to promise another false dawn.
"The time for talk is over. It's time for people with learning disabilities or autism and their families to be put first."
Mr Stevens said changing the way those with learning disabilities were cared for would mean "challenging legacy models of institutional care".
"NHS England's recent work with people with learning disabilities, and this new report, all now prove that radical changes are needed in NHS and social care, so that people with learning disabilities and their families increasingly take control of how the services they want and need are provided."
Jane Cummings, chief nursing officer for England, said: "We asked Sir Stephen to tell us how the NHS can better plan and fund care, treatment and support for people with learning disabilities and autism. He's done that.
"This report asks every part of the system to respond. We are committed to playing a full and active role in the implementation of the recommendations and call on others to do the same."
NHS England said all local NHS leaders must now have a register of inpatients with learning disabilities and autism to create informed local care plans. It is also carrying out care and treatment reviews, which looks at whether a patient is receiving the right care in the right place and takes into account the patient's requests. NHS England expect about 1,000 reviews, which are supported by clinicians as well as NHS and local authority commissioners, to have taken place by the end of the year.
edited 26th Nov '14 12:19:44 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
A nice butterfly
For that last article, autism feels a bit shoehorned in there.
Autism is not a learning disability. It is a developmental disability, they are in different classifications. In from what you quote it says
And it sorta feels like "NHS England said all local NHS leaders must now have a register of inpatients with learning disabilities and autism to create informed local care plans."
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
I too would expect acceptance of others to not average out the same as the general population. But those examples of prejudiced/bigoted autistics also don't surprise me, for the reasons given.
It seems the ultra-conservative autistic really is quite the dumbass for, if nothing else, his hypocrisy. All criminals should be executed? He engaged in stalking!! That makes him a criminal, and in his own mind, a terrible person. But extremists have a funny way of thinking that the rules don't apply to them.
Virgin-shaming for males and slut-shaming for females is a horrible double-standard, and he really should reject that belief system instead of embracing it and condemning himself. When my younger brother became a PUA POS, instead of embracing the belief system he kept trying to justify ("just think about it from a rational perspective" he loved to say all the time), I rejected it... and him.
edited 26th Nov '14 6:39:35 AM by BonsaiForest
V
I suspect their funding all comes out the same pot. The funding for the treatment of those with Aspergers is more likely to come from the general "Mental Health" pot of funding, depending on their condition.
Either way, when it comes to the National Health Service, healthcare is Politicised regardless — the NHS is a major election issue.
Which are more or less and same reasons anyone can become bigoted. It's not that different.
edited 26th Nov '14 6:42:30 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
Above post updated.
Speaking from my own limited personal knowledge, I would hazard a prediction that HFA's manifest less "active" discrimination against minorities, while experiencing more or less the same level and type of "implicit" prejudice and stereotyping.
A nice butterfly
You've yet to punch your brother. Can't you see his extremism will not stop unless you take extreme measures!?
I will punch you unless you punch him, dammit!
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Okay seriously, I'm weak. He's strong. The whole "if you fight back the bully will stop and pick a different target" thing doesn't work for everyone, and does nothing to solve the underlying cause, and will not change his opinions. We're (the rest of the family, save for my cousin who had been arrested 5 times and is actively sabotaging his own life while he spouts his anarchy nonsense) just waiting for the idiot to grow out of his phase.
A nice butterfly
Is humor lost even with potholing?
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
I get it, and I got it. I'm still not a fan of society's "just fight back" mentality, even though I knew you weren't serious.
Friend's Aspergers drives me crazy
From an advice column:
When we went to someone’s house recently, he walked in the door, asked the hostess to go to the store and buy him something he wanted and then requested that she loan him a bunch of DVDs.
Here’s the problem. We’ll be going out together as a group to a concert, and afterward, I’d like to invite some friends back to my place. I only have seats for seven people, and I don’t want to include Joe. I know he will ask to use my computer, make ridiculous requests, ask to borrow my stuff, go through my closets and monopolize every conversation.
How do I politely leave him out? Shouldn’t there be an expectation of proper courtesy and etiquette?
– Bob
Dear Bob: Yes – and no. Someone with Asperger’s is unlikely to understand these expectations and needs to be taught. This means explaining nicely (and consistently) when something is inappropriate and informing him how to behave in a way that will make him welcome. Getting angry only confuses him and teaches him nothing. Nonetheless, if you are incapable of that much compassion for Joe, you do not have to invite him. But we don’t recommend you exclude him during a group activity. Instead, if you wish to entertain without him, invite each friend individually for a specific time and date, and let them know the guest list is small.
The bolded part is great - this advice columnist gets it. I wish more people would. After all, a big part of autism/Aspergers is not instinctively understanding the social rules, and the most effective way to do something about that is to teach the fucking rules. So many people don't get it and just wonder why the autistic doesn't pick it up naturally, and then proceed to bitch about the autistic not getting the supposedly obvious. They make no effort to explain the rules, instead assuming that because they learn social rules naturally, the autistic does or should be expected to. People (not just autistics) seem to have the habit of assuming everyone else thinks like they do.
edited 1st Dec '14 8:41:18 AM by BonsaiForest
This kid sounds like what happens when parents or guardians don't properly help their kids or coddle them.
Honestly, if the guy is that much of a problem, and nothing from that excerpt (which is very short so I get it) says that Joe is a friend, then leave him out of everything, stop inviting him. Leave him alone.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Leaving him alone and shutting him out does not help him learn anything - it just adds to the pile of rejection he'd likely experienced his entire life.
I do think there's a good chance his parents didn't teach him very well, but either way, he still has this problem and if no-one teaches him the social rules, he won't learn them. Adopting the "make them learn it through life experience" mentality when we're dealing with people who, in some cases, have an extreme disability that prevents them from learning social rules automatically through life experience, does not help.
It's not everyone else's obligation to teach him and not everyone has the time or the patience for that. Having someone who doesn't want to deal with him trying to educate him could be worse than just leaving him alone.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
I get what you're saying of course, but someone needs to help him out, and if this guy actually is his friend, then he's in a perfect position to teach this man how to act.
Not really.
I have been trained to help people learn new habits. That doesn't mean that when I am off call I want to do it. Being a good friend doesn't make you a good teacher. And again, from the description, this guy doesn't really want to be Joe's friend.
So no. Just because he can recognize that it's a problem doesn't mean he has the resources to solve it.
It is very tedious to try and reeducate someone even without any sort of disability. Not everyone has the patience or the desire to do so.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Again, I understand, but still, I really don't like the "pass the buck" mentality so common in society. This guy should, if nothing else, try to find some way to help Joe.
With all due respect, that's bullshit.
See how that works? It's just no. Don't do it. You want a simple way? One individual had significant developmental disabilities. Boom. Done. And you're not being a jerk.
And if you were so handicapped, then you should know that it's not really nice to use such language about others better than most and what that can do to how people see those with disabilities.
(raps you with a newspaper.)
Bad Bonsai. You know better.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur