The South Asia Politics, News, and Analysis Thread

Cross posted with the Navy thread Pakistan to build new submarines (based on Chinese designed) in Karachi

Half in Karachi, half in China. This deal has been in the rumor mill for months. Glad there has been clarification.

Just out of curiosity: if no UN, then what? Just writing it off is no answer. -_-

if no UNSC then what is the question. The answer is keep trying. India is notoriously stubborn.

I think it will happen within my lifetime (I'm 22, btw) - either India becomes a part of the UNSC, or the UNSC itself crumbles and India becomes a major, major part of whatever rises from its ashes.

The major reason why we are trying so hard to be a part of it is that it removes the sort of dependence on Russia to save our ass via veto every time Pakistan, almost always backed by the US and China, tries to bring up Kashmir at the UN and India's 'unlawful occupation of Pakistani territory' (when it is in fact illegal occupation of Indian territory by Pakistan). There is also a tendency for Pakistan to moan about human rights violations in Kashmir - while I do agree that AFSPA allows for egregious violations of human rights of Kashmiris and the only way to make separatist propaganda make less sense to Kashmiris is to ensure that soldiers cannot do whatever they want and get away with it legally, to thereby claim that Pakistan therefore has a right to Kashmir is ridiculous - and given Pakistani Hindus' testimonies, not a little hypocritical.

In other news, the Prime Minister's silence on Dadri grows louder every day. Three Sahitya Akademi Puraskar (an award distinguishing eminent Indian writers) winners, Uday Prakash, Nayantara Sehgal (niece of Jawaharlal Nehru) and Ashok Vajpeyi, have returned their awards, citing 'growing intolerance' and increased threats to the lives of people who oppose said intolerance.

Also, the AAP has invited Pakistani singer Ghulam Ali to New Delhi after his performance in Mumbai was cancelled, because of the Sena doing what the Sena always do - threaten to launch a 'Sena-style' protest, in reality little more than unleashing hoodlums into the theatre and using the police to legally harass the man. Phadnavis said the Sena's actions were 'unfortunate' - you'd think the leader of the majority party in a ruling coalition could do more.

In happier news, the air force plans to induct women fighter pilots into the force soon. Women already fly the transport aircraft and helicopters, so it is the logical next step. Better late than never, I guess, and kudos to the Air Force for doing so. I hope inducting women into the front lines is the next step.

What is this Dadri business?

A mob lynching due to claims that the Muslim victims had slaughtered and eaten a cow on Eid-ul-Adha.

Let's just hope they induct the women into Rafales and not Bisons....

Modi finally breaks his silence on beef lynching, says Hindus and Muslims should fight poverty, not each other.

Levels of hatred.◊

The Indian navy and the Battleship debate Cross posted in the Navy thread

Today is the birth anniversary of Dr Avul Pakir Jainulabdeen 'APJ' Abdul Kalam, former president and 'Missile Man' of India, as well as a major contributor in the 1998 Pokhran nuclear tests. He would have been 84, having passed away in July after addressing students at IIM Shillong due to a heart attack. Perhaps one of the most universally loved Indians across all lines, his vision for India being a truly developed nation by the year 2020 is still fought for.

<pumps fist>

edited 15th Oct '15 5:59:17 AM by FFShinra

So the Italians decided to prevent India from entering the MTCR (Missile Technology Control Regime), likely do to the issue with the two Italian marines still being held by India because they shot a fisherman.

I find it funny that the article uses Alessandra Mussolini's distaste for the marine situation as its caption photo.

The myth of liberal India I have no idea how true this article is, but even if it is India is so what? We've gotten into bed with plenty of actual tyrannies. An imperfect Democracy is not much of an issue.

Ridiculous number of lightning strikes in one village in one district of the state of Maharastra, India has villagers wondering what the hell is going on.

I'm stumped guys.

Obviously Pakistan's doing.

Shit, they'd have Kashmir right now if they had the ability to control the weather.

Thirty people killed by lightning in one day? Thats nuts.

Some kind of weather pattern or gas release nobody's checked out as of yet?

Perhaps, but then what would be the cause? Only been happening for the last five years.

8 F 16-s to be sold to Pakistan Can't we cut these bastard's off the vine already. They are clearly destabilizing the situation in Afghanistan. It is obvious they knew where Mulah Omar was, and it is getting very likely they deceived us about Bin Laden as well. They blatantly prefer China to us, they are funding groups that have killed our troops in Afghanistan;though we have killed their citizens in drone strikes, and most importantly of all this undermines our relationship with India at a time where we desperately need to bolster it to both counter China, and to make sure that future global norms go roughly the way we want them to.

I'll say what I said when the helicopter sale happened a while back.

It's done because a big bag of cash with "bribe" written on it would be crass.

Why does the US bribe Pakistan? Because bribing the Pakistani state to not implode is the best way to keep the Pakistani nukes going walkabout.

edited 22nd Oct '15 12:26:35 PM by Silasw

The Pakistanis have also got 13 third-hand F-16s from Jordan — a deal which of course needed US approval...

edited 22nd Oct '15 12:28:56 PM by Greenmantle

The problem is that this bribe not only isn't working, the Pakistani state is now basically turning it from bribe to blackmail by increasing production of nukes so high that they will have the third largest arsenal in the world in the next few years. And many of them will be BRB Ms.

I'll not be surprised if, at the end, they "agree" to get rid of their nukes, at a billion a pop, and make enough nukes before then for that to be an extremely lucrative deal for the Army.

Oh and it seems even the WSJ thinks there has been a slow motion coup in Pakistan. General Raheel Sharif is far more powerful than Nawaz (no relation).

He's been operating the Army in an Ain't No Rule fashion by pressuring the parliament to enact laws that allow the army to do certain things (that Peshawar massacre last year was a big reason that the parliament acquiesed). Now the National Security Advisor, a civillian, is being replaced by a recently retired Lt. General, probably at Raheel's behest.

I'll make a prediction now: Raheel will retire next year as he's supposed to. Then he's going to devise a political party to run for the 2018 elections. He might take on some sycophants among the civillians, but by now it's kinda been proven that those guys bolt at the first sign of trouble (as with Musharraf). Methinks he'll forge a party out of mostly retired military personnel and have them run in elections helped by the Army's media machine (whose chief and organization has recently been upgraded to a Lt. General position). Because the people's only choices are Nawaz (who is basically the Pakistani equivalent of Boss Hogg, even if he's actually pretty pragmatic about relations with India, to the point that most Indians like him...if he had any real power) and Imran Khan (who is basically all style and no substance), I could see Raheel Sharif, with his growing personality cult, getting the win. And it'd all be legal.

If this comes to pass, at least the military would have graduated in style and tactics. Ayub Khan did the classic tinpot dictator thing of arresting the president and then ruling by junta. Zia did the same and added a "King's Party" to give him a facade of legitimacy, led ironically by a young Nawaz, while Musharraf tried a combo of the above and also get the courts to side with him by changing laws after the fact. Now, instead, they're at Burma level or perhaps Cold War Eastern Bloc level of talent...

edited 22nd Oct '15 2:13:09 PM by FFShinra