The General Russia Thread

What reforms havent occured already? I am being serious here - pretty much every aspect of life in Russia has improved under Putin's government, and it certainly wasn't just due to oil money. It's just that angry, disgruntled Russians tend to give their state considerably less credit than it deserves. For example, Lumi, how many chances do you think you have of winning an "unlawful action" case against a corrupt policeman?

Statistics put that chance at 70%. Public opinion puts it somewhere in single digits.

Got a link for that statistic?

http://rbth.co.uk/articles/2011/06/11/presumption_of_failure_13030.html

Here's an article about the whole phenomenon, bear with me and I'll find that Vedomosti editorial.

Aha, there we go, come to papa!

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/1412499 - the public polls mentioned.

http://www.vedomosti.ru/opinion/articles/2011/05/05/pravovoj_mif - and here's that editorial.

It should also be mentioned that both of the above sources are notably anti-Putin and thus have no reason to cook books in his favour.

edited 6th Mar '15 1:05:42 PM by KnitTie

@DM

Sourcing is important to me.

And by sourcing, do you mean the origin of the data, or the origin at the reforms?

I think he was talking about why even once the previous discussion was over he still posted sourcing for his own statements.

Ah, I see.

Well, I'm a little confused. The first link is an article that appears to argue that Medvedev attempted to institute judicial reform, but failed. I don't read Russian, but insofar as I can tell using Google Translate, the next two articles aren't any more positive. The second reports that a majority of the public feels that the laws are not protecting them, and the third says the same thing.

So... doesn't this support the idea that the current regime either cant or wont institute the reforms the Russian public itself feels it needs?

Here's the thing - the reforms were made and turned out to be successful, with Russian courts protecting the interests of the Russian citizens more often than not. The problem is that said citizens do not believe that the courts will protect them, despite this not being true, simply due to a firmly-set nihilist cultural meme, and thus refuse to appeal to them when they by all means should. Hence, law is enforced less thoroughly than it potentially could be. A fitting analogy would be a hypothetical African state that has a good anti-HIV program going on, but in which AIDS remains sadly prevalent nevertheless due to the HIV-infected people refusing to seek medical help due to cultural bias.

So, in a nutshell, the government instituted the needed reforms, but the public a priori refused to believe that they would work, and thus undermined their efficiency.

This discrepancy between the actual state of affairs in Russia and its perception by the common populace is an example of my earlier argument about how the Russian public is irrationally biased towards the negative assessment of their government's actions.

edited 6th Mar '15 9:39:08 PM by KnitTie

So on paper Russia isn't that bad but everyone is just so cynical they're making it suck?

Yes! One thousand times yes! The biggest social problem of modern Russia is this hyper-cynical attitude of "it's all gonna end badly anyway, I'm not even gonna try," which causes a whole slew of problems, the major of which is extremely low social accountability that causes a lack of business initiative and a prevalence of corruption. Thankfully, this seems to have been abating recently.

In an interesting comparison, Ukraine appears to have an irrational bias problem of equal magnitude, but this time based around extreme, unjustifiable idealism. "Yanukovich will be gone and everything will be fine and dandy and the rest of the oligarchs totally aren't going to remain in power and have a field day with the state budget!" Yeah, right.

But that's, of course, only my opinion.

edited 6th Mar '15 9:30:09 PM by KnitTie

Just making a short remark - there's a remarkable difference, especially in Russia, between winning a case and actually being compensated or the criminal being punished. Any stats for that?

And now, as I have no significant input to contribute to either this or the Ukranian discussion, I think I'm going to grab the fried head of a Russian baby and join Shinra and Quag on the sidelines.

All the stats for the Russian courts can be found here. I'll take a more thorough look through it after I wake up.

Аlso, you're really wrong on the Ukraine count.

I don't think that the cynicism of the populace explains everything - there are plenty of hugely unpopular laws that are still passed, such as the attempts to restrict Internet. However, there is some truth in that.

For example, it is now possible to file a complaint online to the city administration about the state of maintenance in your neighbourhood - things like "the roads are frozen over, the lampposts are dark, the ladder needs repair, the roof is leaking, there is rubbish on the sidewalk" and so on.

In my experience and experience of those who used the service, it actually works - you file the complaint, you send the picture and within a couple of dayss the problem is either solved or you get a personal reply saying why, regretfully, itcan't be solved at the time.

However, the majority of the population just grumble that the maintenance services do nothing, as always, and that the roads are beaten, as usual, without even attempting to contact the portal, because they just know it is useless. We do have a huge case of learned helplessness.

I probably really am. What's your opinion on that?

Thankfully, this cynicism seems to be taking a beating recently, among the majority of the populace. Crimea and Donbass sparked such a powerful "Yes we can!" sentiment among the people that it is starting to reverberate throughout all aspects of life.

edited 6th Mar '15 11:56:49 PM by KnitTie

Why is Russian society so cynical? It might not be the best place to live, But Venezuela has even worse problems and its been ranked the happiest country in South America

edited 7th Mar '15 12:31:17 AM by Xopher001

Didn't the stuff from Breznev to Yeltsin teach you anything, and if you want to go earlier, how Stalin ran things post-1924?

Two suspects detained over Nemtsov murder: Russian state TV - (Reuters) - Two suspects have been detained in relation to the murder of Russian opposition leader Boris Nemtsov, Russian state TV Rossiya-24 quoted the head of Russia's Federal Security Service Alexander Bortnikov as saying on Saturday.

And the Tsars before that. If you want an idea of the Russian mindset, read the Russian Humour page on this Wiki.

"Yes we can" isolate ourselves forever. "Yes we can" return to the ruinous state. "Yes we can" shit on progressive ideas. "Yes we can" indulge in our percecusion complex and racism. "Yes we can" lose our last chance to enter the first world. "Yes we can" take an economic downspiral if it means the West doesn't win in an unspecified way. "Yes we can" kill those pesky liberasts directly, as evident by recent events.

Yeah... not the kind of "yes we can" I'm happy with.

edited 7th Mar '15 4:06:44 AM by Luminosity

Speaking of traditional Russian cynicism, I think that it is caused mainly by sheer socio-historical continuity, like all other cultural mindsets are. Because if we stop overusing that running gag and saying that Russia was somehow an awful place to live throughout history without even trying to engage in comparative analysis, we will see that there is no reason for such a negative bias, just as there is no reason for the Italians to be so lazy and for the Venezuelans to be so happy.

And here we have an example of a traditional Russian reaction to change. There is something like that going around the people's mouths and ears every single time the government does anything. That, and corruption scheme conspiracy theories.

Absolitely no offence, Lumi, sorry if that came out as rude or insensitive.

Russian opposition is cautiously optimistic with regards to Nemtsov murder suspects' arrest. They basically say that it is entirely possible that these guys really were responsible for the murder.

edited 7th Mar '15 5:57:45 AM by KnitTie

Government doesn't spawn reactionary anti-progress movements every time it does anything. It doesn't set the course for further isolation every time it does anything. And so on and so on and so on.

This "yes we can" is more like "fuck yeah vengeance for 9/11", except substitude "9/11" for "destruction of Soviet Union" which is, as per course of everything, the West is apparently to blame for.

Reaction to change? I liked the progressive changes that were made prior to 2012 or so. I hate that we are backsliding now, that we might isolate ourselves and never become a proper European country.

Weird question: as someone who's interested in legacies of the Soviet era, at some point I'd like to go and visit one of Russia's formerly closed / secret cities - the ones that were never shown on maps. Which is most tourist friendly? :) Actually, the same question for Soviet Secret Cities outside Russia too, if you don't mind the offtopicness. Kinda fascinated about how a whole city can go about being hidden.