Ambiguous Name: I Am Not Leonard Nimoy

There are two trope names: I Am Not Spock and I Am Not Leonard Nimoy. But "I Am Not Spock" implies that the actor dislikes being constantly associated with their most famous role. Same with the other one. It doesn't make any sense to have the name imply not being the actor/character, or a denial, when the trope is about one overshadowing the other and not someone's reaction to it.

edited 16th Feb '14 5:53:41 PM by grapesandmilk

... what.

I Am Not Spock implies that the actor is typecast as a certain character.

I Am Not Leonard Nimoy seems to be "audiences see character as 'famous actor' rather than as his own character."

They're certainly distinct and the same implies the difference well.

The only issue I have is the latter should probably be YMMV.

edited 16th Feb '14 6:33:37 PM by Larkmarn

I understand the differences between the tropes perfectly. The issue here is with their names. I Am Not Spock implies the actor doesn't like being identified with the character, which is not what the trope is about. And vice versa. So basically, the trope shouldn't be named "I am not X" if the basic idea is that they are seen as X. Also, they're both dialogue titles.

Do the names cause any actual problems?

Yes. They imply something different than what the trope actually is, and they're dialogue titles.

No, that's a description of the situation as you see it. I was asking if the names cause any problems. Are people misunderstanding the tropes because of the names? Are they underusing them? The best way to check the former is to do a Wick Check. Underuse can be checked by counting the usage, and see if the tropes should be used more than they are.

Well, first off, let's keep this to one trope per thread. A mere similarity in names doesn't justify using a thread for two tropes.

I Am Not Leonard Nimoy seems to be deficient in wicks to my eye, plus it's got a line of dialogue title, so I'll tentatively tag that page first.

I Am Not Spock is the title of Nimoy's first autobiography. I Am Not Leonard Nimoy was snowcloned from that, and can't claim the Trope Namer as an example.

To me, it sounds natural for an actor to emphasize that he's not his character, and indeed Nimoy did say (and write) that "I am not Spock".

For a character to claim that he's not his actor - i.e. Spock saying in-universe that he is not Leonard Nimoy - seems pretty strange to me (invoking the Celebrity Paradox as well as blatantly breaking the Fourth Wall). And the trope is not about that, but about an audience reaction. So I think it needs a better name.

So the problem with this trope is that it's using a Snowclone name then?

I must admit the name is slightly confusing at first, since I didn't know who Leonard Nimoy is, but the description is clear enough, and most of the examples seem to fit.

I'm not sure if the problem is that the name is a snowclone, but it's a name that doesn't quite work for me. If I were looking for this trope the current name wouldn't ring a bell. So the name might be causing underuse.

So what should the new name be?

If you want to change it as little as possible, I think "Spock is not Leonard Nimoy" would remove some of the vagueness - it would make it clear that it's about that it's about confusing a character with its actor. But it's still far from ideal.

If anything, the suggestion makes it even more vague, since I cannot be certain if it's talking about this trope or its inverse.

I have no strong opinion on the name, but I support the idea that this is an Audience Reaction so should be classed as YMMV.

Indeed. After all, this pretty much depends on the Audience's recognition of certain actors/actresses and how they associate with them.

Yeah, definitely YMMV.

I think the name is fine, but if it must be changed, try to keep it to something similar enough, e.g., "He Is Not Leonard Nimoy".

Clock is set.

There seems to be no interest in this. Closing it. If it's just a question of having the trope be flagged YMMV, use the Long Term Projects thread for that.