If the internet existed back in the 60's...

The Silver Apples must have time-traveled from the early 1980s. Their music sounds years ahead of the time they recorded them. Most people argue about whether some artists deserve the "pioneer" status. I don't think anyone would argue that regarding Silver Apples.

As far as insufferable musical elitism of the Sixties goes, y'all would be well served by reading up on the Darmstadt International Summer Courses for New Music. Quag already mentioned Stockhausen, but Pierre Boulez might make a better case study.

Now, to something on the last page:

Strange that you are willing to insult a broad swath of people with a different way of looking at music from yourself in rather abrasive terms and then claim that the snobbery that they complain about is mythical.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

Given that all the examples I've ever seen them provide from beneath a veil of supposed enlightenment more or less narrowed down to "some guy who disagreed with me on how genre-x should be defined and didn't like the upper-crust mainstream acts I thought exemplified it", I don't see how me pointing out that "gee, perhaps they should actually delve into the genre a bit more before they attempt the unwieldy task of explaining it so they won't look like a clueless big name mag reviewer" somehow makes me a snob. Honestly don't really care how they listen to or experience their music but when they go out making incredibly off-center judgements and snipe at anyone who disagrees as being some mythic demon of the darker corners of the interwebs, then they more or less deserve the mockery they get.

It's not too dissimilar to the "Red Scare" of the 50's and the people yelling "socialism!!!!" today in that it's bitching and whining at a near nonexistent group propped up as the supposed face of the underground (which isn't exactly united in the first place and never has been thankfully). Anyone who chooses more stringent, specific standards and definitions that don't comply to their own which clearly makes them elitists cuz uh, they don't like "flavour of the month-core act". In that, it's closer to the actual elitism these people whine about than the actual people in the metal community.

edited 1st Apr '14 4:27:10 PM by StillbirthMachine

Only Death Is Real

Using terms like "upper-crust mainstream" and "flavor of the month" doesn't exactly help your case.

Oh, right, guess I'll use "terribly over-exposed band that's fairly decent by itself but it'd be nice if people would stop treating as if they're the second coming of Freddie Mercury" and "slightly more distinctive than normal band in over-exposed style that gained traction recently we'll forget about in a year's time after the major mags and labels wear out their new chew toy." Nobody can deny that there's varying degrees of "obscurity" (not that that matters as much anymore thanks to the internet) and spotlight-longevity but acting as if pointing that out makes one a snob rather than having at minimum a passing familiarity with the changing tastes of the seasons or an indicator of where their tastes lean is infinitely more snobby.

edited 1st Apr '14 5:07:43 PM by StillbirthMachine

Only Death Is Real

I don't get why you suddenly launched into a rant about how people classify metal in a thread titled "If the internet existed back in the 60's..." EDIT: Well, you took the word "metal" out of your post in the time I took to write this, but still.

edited 1st Apr '14 5:10:54 PM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

You could aim that at the guy who brought it up earlier than me on post 37 you know. I simply pointed out the whole "elitist/snob" thing for the most part tends to just a way of distracting from one's general lack of knowledge of what they're talking about by accusing anyone who corrects them as being some jackbooted authoritarian rather than someone with a differing opinion.

edited 1st Apr '14 5:14:25 PM by StillbirthMachine

Only Death Is Real

I don't think he was saying anything about metal or what have you. I'm pretty sure it was just supposed to be a snide comment not to be taken seriously.

AND SPEAKING OF WHICH, so any of you think the Velvet Underground might have gained a bigger following a lot earlier with the help of the internet?

edited 1st Apr '14 5:16:48 PM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

I wasn't necessarily just talking about metal. Yeah, it was there but the whole elitist/snob vs "open minded" dichotomy that inevitably comes up as far as I'm concerned is a much bigger issue.

Anyways, also onto the topic, I would be curious in how people from the 60's would have seen filesharing. I mean for once I imagine a scenario in which goofy nonsense like this◊ might actually not be viewed with anything other than barely repressed snickering. I can see the hippies outright supporting it and the whole "labels versus listeners" fiasco would be interesting to see how the actual bands respond to it.

edited 1st Apr '14 5:24:16 PM by StillbirthMachine

Only Death Is Real

Mmmm, better.

Probably? I mean, word can spread pretty fast on the internet, so they could've gotten a lot of exposure.

edited 1st Apr '14 6:48:59 PM by PhysicalStamina

Well, I mean, think of it this way, it took like a decade before they finally got their due. Despite the big influence they had, practically no one but those artists who took their influence (most notably David Bowie) had even heard their music. The oft-quoted statement that only 1,000 people bought their debut? Not very far from the truth. And I'm sure a ton of those customers were probably curious Warhol fanatics.

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

The Velvet Underground would definitely receive higher recognition if the Net existed then. Their controversial lyrics didn't allow them to be publicized via mainstream media. The Internet, not being a mainstream medium, would be a good way to gain the band's popularity. It wouldn't be a huge issue to promote them via the Net considering they were "managed" by an already-notorious, popular and eccentric artist in New York. I don't think they would become mainstream, again, due to their controversial lyrics but they would become the most popular underground band at the time.

Speaking of their "manager", look at my avatar.

edited 2nd Apr '14 6:09:06 AM by tropeslave

With the internet, it would have been less than 5 years.

Also, Krautrock would probably have started in the mid-60's, as opposed to '69/the 70's.