The Knife Thread

My understanding is that switchblades were made illegal for much the same reasoning that some gun control people want to outlaw certain guns but are ok with others: the design makes it impractical to use for anything except wreaking mayhem on someone else; they aren't multi-use knives, they're fighting/killing knives. It certainly didn't help that they were a favorite weapon of the hoodlums of the 50's. Balisongs then fell under the same umbrella, along with a healthy dash of xenophobia, helped out by idiots who emphasized the flash over any practicality it had.

edited 1st Feb '14 9:44:12 PM by Madrugada

I followed that link and it was a demo of a war club.

@drunk- that's a video of a metal club. While pretty kickass, don't think that was the right video

Shit, my clipboard is derping again.

fixed.

Extremely valid points raised.

Balisongs and switchblades are illegal here (balisongs used to be legal but were suddenly made illegal), as are "assisted opening" knives (those with a spring to finish opening the knife after it's partially opened).

Currently one-hand opening knives, such as the Spyderco knives and others, are legal.

I like Skallagrim's point about prefering to have some gangsta-wannabe waving a balisong around rather than being stuck with a knife. I agree with that fully.

Would I carry and use a balisong as a utility knife? No. Have one as a collector's piece? Yes, if I were allowed.

A switchblade or a balisong is no more dangerous than any knife.

"Ooh, a switchblade can be opened quickly!" Big fucking deal, a sheath knife can be drawn even more quickly.

"They can be opened one-handed!" So can many other knives that are legal. There are also knives that don't need to be opened at all.

"It's concealable!" So's a fucking machete - just ask that judge up in Auckland!

"It can be used in a crime!" So can a screwdriver, hammer, baseball bat, car, rock, piece of tree branch.

Also: don't we have a law that says innocent until proven guilty - if you think my intent is to use something in the commission of a crime, the onus is on you to prove that I do, not on me to prove that I have no such intent.

Knife laws are really stupid. The fuck's the point of banning a quick open knife when you can just carry a knife that doesn't even have to open. Balisongs especially, my friend has a collection(including a comb and a bottle opener one), I've futzed around with a dull one once or twice, it's a pain in the ass. If anything ban anything but those, if you can open that quickly you almost deserve my wallet.

Plus criminals would be easily identifiable by the numerous cuts and missing fingers

I had a play with a balisong back before they were made illegal here, managed to smack the back of my fingers flipping it open and wasn't keen to try flipping it closed and risk closing the blade onto my fingers.

I've seen people who can open them smoothly and quickly but nowhere near as quickly as I can draw one of my camping knives from its sheath.

I've also seen and handled two automatic knives - a side-break version and one where the blade slides forward and back - and neither of them seemed particularly terrifying compared with any manually opening knife.

The side-break switchblade was a pain in the arse as it has a safety catch that has do be disengaged before you can open it (presumably so it doesn't open in your pocket if the button gets pressure on it) which means you've got to train yourself to disengage that when deploying it.

By comparison, there was a guy whose lockblade was so smooth in its opening that a couple of flicks of the wrist would cause it to open and my Walther P99 knife will open with just a flick of the wrist.

The push-type knife had such a tiny blade it looked wimpy compared with my old Okapi lockblade and, contrary to what I saw in a movie, you could not put it up against someone and push the button to drive the blade into them - if anything was in the way of the blade, it'd stop it from opening. The spring was that weak (had to be in order for you to compress it to drive the blade forward).

So the two Horrible and Dangerous switchblades and the balisong were frankly underwhelming. Faster to deploy than my SAK, convenient in not requiring both hands to open, but not exactly "inherently more dangerous" than any other knife.

I had a switchblade comb (sidebreak) that I got from the joke shop, which was a bit of a laugh, especially when a cop found it in the car and thought he had found something illegal. "All right, whose is the knife?" <CLICK> "Oh, I suppose you're allowed a comb." Glee to disappointment in 0.001 seconds. Classic!

Considering that the ban on switchblades and, later, balisongs does nothing to stop people being stabbed by kitchen knives and screwdrivers and didn't stop a lout in Otahuhu smuggling a machete into a courthouse and savagely assaulting a judge, I think that the laws that caused a fair amount of self-congratulatory back-slapping and media hype haven't done a lot towards making the streets a safer place.

And no ban is going to. Until they enact laws that give tougher sentencing for those convicted of real crimes (like actually using weapons against someone rather than merely possessing something that could possibly be used as one) and to anyone with gang affiliations (rather than just banning them from wearing gang patches in public), we're still going to have a problem.

You can conceal a full-sized sheath knife or a screwdriver under a jacket or inside your trousers, you can make wicked functional stilettos out of a cheap pack of warding files and a short length of broomhandle - nasty ones that break off inside the victim's body - you could also use a SAK or a regular lockblade if you had time/opportunity to open it unobserved (which is generally the prefered tactic: don't let your victim know (s)he's in danger until they're already bleeding) and retractable "box knives" were popular for a while (at least in the media which made them out to be the latest and greatest Threat To Civilisation).

The one common denominator that's never targeted is the criminal. It's "ban the item" or pass laws to prevent people under a certain age from buying them (in the case of obvious tools such as retractable box knives). Never "give tougher penalties to the (poor unfortunate deprived) crims (who had horrible childhoods and came from broken homes and can't help themselves)".

I didn't say the bans were reasonable, or that they worked. I just said that was the thinking behind them.

Here is my take on the "fast opening" knives. With a bit of tinkering, oil, and spring wearing effort you can make most knives open quickly. Just a little tweaking with most lock blades you can turn them into flick knives.

Any knife can be used for utility or for killing. Some are better at their selected jobs then others like the Commando Dagger. It has some utility use but is better suited as a fighting knife.

edited 3rd Feb '14 8:37:00 PM by TuefelHundenIV

My old Okapi lockblade (similar to Mercator "Cat") could be opened with a flick of the wrist once I'd loosened up the action as you describe.

I don't see switchblades - especially side-break ones - as much less "utilitarian" than any given lockblade folder. The two I saw were pretty utilitarian - the side-break was a clip-point blade similar to that on my Leatherman Wave, the push-type was a spear-point single-edged blade like the blade on my Okapi - either could be used quite legitimately for whittling, cutting cordage, opening packages etc. All the stuff a normal pocket knife could be used for.

The only thing against the balisong is the hand grip which, because it's two pieces that fold against each other, is not as stable a grip as a proper knife handle, but that would've been an OK utility knife as well.

The Fairbairn-Sykes is more a purpose-made dagger than a utility knife but I could buy and own one of those while I can't own a switch-blade or balisong despite them being not unlike two pocket knives I currently own in blade length and style.

edited 3rd Feb '14 7:44:19 PM by Wolf1066

There was a type of balisong carried in a pocket by a marine from another unit we did some cross training with. he used it like you would a normal folding lock blade. It had some sort of spring clips on the handles that held them together tightly. One set at the bottom and one set a little further up. It also had an odd hinge. Normally they hinge just below the blade but the blade for this one sate below and fit between the handles by about inch.

Sounds a lot better than the balisongs I've seen, which only had the little "T" clip at the end of one of the handle sections to fasten it open or closed.

A blacksmith at a convention I attended had a balisong that I so wanted to buy. For starters, the thing actually had the heft one wants a knife to have; too many of the cheap "butterfly knives" feel like toys. It had a beautiful handle (rosewood if memory serves) and the action was smooth as butter. It was listed as "not for sale" but I inquired about a price anyway. His response was that he had carried it for 35 years and had "had to use it twice". I quickly withdrew my offer.

Another funny thing about it was that it was double-edged. I was smart enough to open it slowly the first time (never assume you know anything about a closed knife), which apparently raised my cred in the blacksmith's eyes. He told me that he enjoyed leaving it out for young punks passing his booth to try and play with - and then sold them Band-Aids at five bucks a pop when they inevitably cut themselves trying to look cool doing that flippy-thing. :D

Of course, this is the same guy that forged a knife out of a crescent wrench...xD

Hey scrap forging old tools into new things is a long smithing tradition. Like making tool steel knives from old files and rasps. Nothing like a premade blank.

Yup. And, not just proper blacksmiths: ask any kid growing up on a farm. You'd be surprised what can be given an edge.

...Well, unless you work in the prison service, that is. You'll not be surprised, then.

I always liked seeing those knives made from old railway spikes.

Those were neat.

Is anyone else here a fan of Swiss Army Knives?

I collect those on a semiregular basis. I find them to be completely awesome.

...One can become over-saturated when it comes to Swiss Army Knives. (Says she who lived in Switzerland.)

Generally speaking: some are really, really good. Others? Overpriced tourist tat pimped out at places like Geneva airport.

I forego the Swiss army knife in favour of the leatherman or buck tool.

I haven't used a Swiss Army knife since I was like... ten or so. That's around the time I discovered lock blades for the knife, and multitools for everything else.

My EDC includes two Swiss Army knives (Victorinox Spartan and Victorinox Classic SD) and a Leatherman multi-tool (old model Wave).

They all serve different purposes, though.

My Spyderco "Persistence" has finally been paid off and arrived a couple of days ago - along with the Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker.

Very pleased with it. Ideal size for what I want to use it for.

http://youtu.be/6fK8xrEXVo0

What was the first knife in that video?

That was my new Walther P99 knife.

Followed by my trusty Leatherman Wave then my newest acquisition, the Persistence, then Victorinox Spartan, Victinox Classic SD, Solingen-made Bowie-style knife (make/model unknown - markings worn off years ago) and finally Richard Herder Abr. sheath knife (from Solingen, Germany).

edited 16th Feb '14 7:37:51 PM by Wolf1066

Is that...a web belt. I swear i wore a belt like when i did training.