The Knife Thread

A bit of Marc MacYoung, a bit of what's been on the news (the "I thought he had punched me..." quote) and a bit of what I've seen from some of the people in towns where I've lived. I've met a number of braggarts who have carried knives to look bad-ass and a few people who'd quite happily stick you when you least expect it if you fucked them off.

Marc MacYoung's advice is great in that it is just as relevant here as it is in the USA - the distinctions between self-defense and fighting, the importance of awareness, de-escalating, or at the very least not contributing to the escalation, not relying on so-called "best-ever-techniques" etc.

Situational awareness, evasion, de-escalation, being prepared to run like fuck - they're my principal weapons and I've used them all on various occasions. Since we're not allowed to carry any other weapons for the purpose of self-defense here, they're the only ones open to me.

edited 3rd Jan '14 7:22:04 PM by Wolf1066

Wolf: That sounds like a far better set of options then being forced to use a weapon. If you are in a situation where you have to use your weapon something has gone horribly pear shaped.

Every reasonable instructor even the ones in boot said it is better to back off and stay out of trouble then it is get into and find out you met one of the people better then your or has more friends with him then you do.

Think first fight last.

So more back to the knives themselves. I have found for utilitarian purposes a small 2.5 inch folding lock blade is good for the majority of my needs. Opening packages, picking rocks otu of my shoes, trimming loose threads, cutting food up (I wash it before and after), and other similar more utilitarian focused uses.

While those considerations do apply to all non-ranged weapons, some potential weapons lend themselves to personal defense better than others. I would carry a billy-club before I would carry a knife (and have). Even an Taser can hold someone off without the necessity of taking the initiative and acting aggressively before the situation became dangerous. You just have to whip it out and touch them. Neither of these weapons require the controlled precision of a knife to stop an attacker. Yet, the best defense is never to walk into danger in the first place.

Sounds like someone should make a martial art built around running away.

Soban: Parkour. :P

You don't have to wield any weapon with precision or finesse for it to be lethal or effective. But knowing how certainly increases your individual effectiveness with that weapon. That goes for batons/clubs and even stun guns. Yes there is a skill in wielding clubs for max effectiveness.

By Taser I am assuming you mean a stun gun. Tasers shoot projectiles with pressurized catrdiges. They fire darts on wires. They are typically not as widely available to civilians. Stun guns are a bit more common and in most places easier to get. Some Tasers do have a stun gun like ability though. Stun guns are the ones you have to touch them with.

Stun guns are touch weapons so you still have to have a good contact area and get close to your would be attacker to use it and if your would be opponent is wearing thick clothing it kind of limits your options for where you can zap them.

Something I have been having a hard time finding is there was some Finnish soldier who supposedly managed to kill 21 Russians with a knife but I can't seem to find the persons name. However I found out there were a pair of criminals who led a gang who were supposedly infamous Finnish knife fighters though.

Anyone know anything about the story with the Finnish trooper?

edited 3rd Jan '14 8:26:39 PM by TuefelHundenIV

so what would the law be on carrying a sword?

@Tuefel: never heard that story, must research. I've been looking into real-life knife badasses off-and-on lately for book reference material.

@Thread: so I stumbled upon this knife design◊ after watching the movie which featured it (The Hunted). After a brief "oh, that's way too silly" bit of dismissal I did see some functionality in the design. The wide front would be good for chopping as well as a few other uses. Anyone ever employed one?

EDIT: Depends on where you live, Joe. Generally speaking most police officers don't like it even if it is legal and will harass you if you do.

edited 4th Jan '14 10:36:39 PM by drunkscriblerian

The big broad tip would be nasty if you stab someone with it. Big wound very messy.

That looks more like a skinner/utility knife than one designed for stabbing. The smooth sweeping curve on the belly would make it easy to make the long, shallow cuts you need for dressing out a critter without slicing open the viscera.

In many places, it's actually easier to carry a gun openly or concealed than a bladed weapon, legally speaking.

That just seems really weird to me. Messed-up and weird. -_-

History and uses of my knives

EDC:

Victorinox Classic SD: very small and lightweight, has a single small knife blade that is fine for cutting plastic packing straps and the plastic adhesive tape on boxes (also good for cleaning gunk out from under fingernails), small flat-blade screwdriver which not only will fit most philips-head screws, it is the perfect size to fit across the Torx screws so beloved by Compaq and HP. The screwdriver has a nail file which does come in handy to help me not pick at ragged bits of fingernails and tear them off (I've got a shocking habit of picking at my nails). The small spring-loaded scissors are also very handy. And being Victorinox, it has the tweezers and a "tooth pick" - which actually is quite good for hitting recessed reset buttons in watches, phones and PD As.

I carried one for years when I was working at the Polytechnic as a computer technician. I had a full-sized tool kit with assorted Torx, flat, phillips and Pozi drivers, but that was rather bulky to carry around and a pain in the arse when I found I had to carry a faulty computer or monitor back to our workshop. Generally a pain in the arse just to lug it to the office/classroom/lab only to find it was a fault with the software or the chair-to-keyboard interface. Hell, even when I actually did need it, it was a pain in the arse.

The Classic SD, however, fitted nicely in my pocket and could open up every computer in the Polytechnic, including those pesky Compaqs and H Ps for which our manager had had to purchase Torx drivers for every technician. I could remove cards and replace them with a tool that I didn't even feel when walking around.

Needless to say, I got nicknamed "MacGyver" and the upshot was that when I left the Polytechnic, my workmates gave me a Victorinox Climber with black scales as a going away present.

I still carry a Classic SD as it's so bloody handy.

Victorinox Spartan: My Climber got stolen by some shitty toe-rags that broke into my house while I was in the midst of shifting and this was the only model I could afford to replace it. It is the same as the Climber except it lacks the scissors and "parcel hook".

Two knife blades that seldom get used; bottle opener, corkscrew and can opener that occasionally get used; tweezers and toothpick (Victorinox, eh?); two flat blade screwdrivers that have occasionally been used; and an awl/reamer that actually has been quite useful on a number of occasions. I've also put a pin into it.

Leatherman Wave: Since I've got this, with its one-hand-opening locking blades, this is usually the first knife I grab when I want to cut something. The fact that it's on a pouch on my belt rather than somewhere in my pockets just makes it even easier to get. In addition to the clip point and serrated blades, it's got a fuckton of useful tools. It gets far more use for its other tools than for its knife blades.

I chose the Wave in particular due to the rounded grips (the old PST-II felt like it'd cut fingers and palm if you applied any decent pressure with the pliers) and the access to the knives, saw and file without having to open it right out. One-hand-opening was just the icing on the cake.

Although it's better than the PST-II, it's still not the most comfortable thing to hold when using the knife blades, saw or file. All right for short jobs but get uncomfortable on lengthy projects. Still, it's a multi-tool, it's designed to do a lot of things with a number of trade-offs rather than do one thing really well.

Camping Knives:

I've had both of my sheath knives for well over twenty years, they are amongst the earliest things I bought for camping.

Richard Herder Abr. high-carbon sheath knife: Lightweight, great grip, feels good in the hand, very controllable and takes and holds a wicked edge. For any cutting that needs a decent-sized blade with a fine keen edge that doesn't dull quickly.

Solingen stainless-steel heavy-duty bowie: This is great for chopping things, very robust, not the most comfortable grip (deer antler), not as stainless as it could be, doesn't hold an edge as well as the R.H.Abr knife but I'd say it's more versatile.

Walther P99 knife: Not to put too fine a point on it, I got this because it looked cool and is an official bit of Walther merchandising based on the P99 pistol. It's good quality and has a lot of what I like in a lock blade - one-hand opening, liner lock, comfortable grip. A bit too large to carry in my pocket for EDC, even if we were allowed to carry knives here.

Does it have a function not covered by any of the other knives? Yet to be determined. I'm thinking of having it coarser than the others so it's optimised for slicing rather than push cutting. Finish the sharpening at the medium stone rather than going to the fine stone.

Okapi lock-blade: This is another one that I bought back in the dim, dark recesses of time. I had wanted a Mercator lockblade and this Okapi was identical but cheaper and very well made. Over the years I subjected that poor knife to a lot of indignities/abuse and the result is a very loose blade, lots of rust damage, rounded tip from bad sharpening techniques.

I loosened up the pivot so it could be opened one handed with a couple of snaps of the wrist and I once snapped it shut on my index finger and cut myself to the bone (I was showing off, of course). This knife was usually tucked into whatever pouch my emergency survival gear was carried in, then I carried it in my tool kit for a while.

I've decided to retire this knife from "active duty".

Spyderco Persistence: This hasn't arrived yet, but it's my planned replacement for the Okapi. It should be more comfortable to use long-term than the Leatherman or even my Victorinox Spartan, one-handed opening, stable lock blade, compact, easy to handle. It's only a 2.75" blade, so should be easy to wield for delicate work but also sufficient for most things.

Ideally, this should be the knife I grab instead of the Leatherman when I need to cut something.

So, what about your knives? Their uses, histories etc.

edited 5th Jan '14 2:21:07 PM by Wolf1066

To answer the question (and to keep the thread alive), I have...

• A replica Sykes-Fairburn dagger. My older brother bought it for me over twenty years ago at a surplus store. It is a well-made knife (mine is stamped with a "Sheffield" logo, which did mean something once upon a time) but unsuitable for anything other than killing people...I know, I've tried to use it for other tasks. I've also carried it for personal defense and it is comfortable for that purpose, if not all that legal.
• A Schrade folder. Also an old specimen, my grandfather mailed it to me when I was a kid. It has knocked around in various junk drawers for a good while now. I have yet to use it for anything, mostly because it has sentimental value. The handle is bone and has some nice scrimshaw carved into it. I've been thinking of passing this one on to the first nephew of mine who gets old enough to own a knife.
• Various folding utility-knives. Now, we get into stuff I use regularly. Despite knowing how and being decent at it, I hate having to sharpen things and vastly prefer disposable-blade knives to ones I have to work on a stone. When Sheffield introduced their folding utility knife I was all over that shit, especially because the traditional slide-out models sucked in a variety of ways. The basic design has since lost its patent and in turn seen some ingenuity...I got a from-the-front slide action model for Christmas and it has become my near-constant companion.
• A Gerber machete. Another recent Christmas acquisition. Not sure what I'm going to use it for...but thanks to the balance and heft of the thing, if the zombie apocalypse breaks out I know what I'll be reaching for.
• A WWII-vintage machete. This thing was beat to hell when I got it and hasn't gotten much better under my care. It shows evidence of having the tip broken and reground (the bevel angle varies a good deal at the tip vs. the rest of the blade) and the edge was notched to shit...I've always meant to set that right but have never gotten around to it.
• Various cheap-ass switchblades. I'll admit it...I love punk knives as much as the next gamer geek and will buy them if I see them when I have money. Most of the ones I have are broken (including one purchased at a Paris flea market and smuggled home - no, don't try that today...I did this pre-9/11), but I really will fix them at some point. I've never seen the point of "automatics" being illegal and probably never will. I'd love to own a nice one someday but laws and a skimpy wallet combine to leave me bereft.

Anyhow, that's more or less my collection.

My best most long lived knife is a folding lock blade buck knife of indeterminate wood handle type because hand and mineral oils have stained the wood a different color. It is over a decade old.

This isn't something I can carry in my pocket on the streets of my city though.

This knife here Different wood handle though.

http://www.dudeiwantthat.com/gear/weapons/halo-v-3x-32-switchblade.asp

Just discovered the perfect carrying knife.

I'm still laughing after that.

Well, you could try to carry concealed... By using a truck.

edited 15th Jan '14 2:09:40 PM by Euodiachloris

Question for the knife-users in the thread; what are the pros and cons of a "scout style" sheath? I ask because it comes up in a novel and I was wondering what people who have carried a knife this way thought of it. here's a picture of one, in case the term isn't one you are familiar with.

The great thing about it is it doesn't get in the way when you sit down at all. Doesn't catch on stuff nearly as much, either. Mostly useful for bigger knives, of course.

The con is mostly that the knife isn't held in place at all by gravity so it needs a more secure retention system, since it will be under tension at all times.

Oh, and also: you drag the point over your body when you draw the knife. This could lead to injury if you're not careful.

It probably leaves your knife easier for someone else to grab, if that's a worry.

edited 20th Jan '14 11:25:58 PM by Morven

I can think of another: snagging on really baggy or billowy bottoms. Don't try to unsheathe when seated. Or wearing a Pimped-Out Dress.

The Scout Sheath will keep it out of the way but needs some secure rigging. Harder to draw it from behind your back then from your hip, shoulder, or side.

My preferred rigging is attached to a load bearing vest/harness. The knife is secured handle down with snap, strap, or appropriate sheath.

The drawing of that knife doesn't concern me as much as the sheathing of it - what you'd basically be doing is pointing the sharp tip of a blade somewhere in the general vicinity of your kidneys and hoping you get it into the sheath and not your flesh.

A chest rig such as Tuefel describes is really good but personally I don't like wearing too much crap on my chest (or any, for that matter).

Hanging down from the hip can be a pain in the arse sometimes, but it's easy to reach to draw and sheath the blade. I find even "4 o'clock" too far around to easily sheath the knife (I'm a rightie). I'd carry a torch (flashlight) pouch back there, but I'm not likely to slice my buttock off with a torch if I miss.

Thanks for the pointers, everyone.

What I'm looking for; the character in question is fond of acrobatics to escape dangerous situations but also carries a large hunting knife. Now, I know from my experiences playing paintball that thigh accessories impede running real bad; I ditched a thigh-mounted ammo pouch for that exact reason. Also, belt accessories that hang vertically have a habit of prodding the legs when you crouch. Landing on them during a fall (or a purposeful roll) is likewise a painful experience. I'm looking for an outside-the-box solution to those problems.

Regarding the scout-sheath, he points about retention, drawing and re-sheathing make a lot of sense. I'm sure the re-sheathing problem would be overcome with practice. However, next question; is there such a thing as a shoulder holster for a knife?

If they are doing acrobatics smaller knives would work better then some of the larger hunting knives. Smaller and more places to stash them. Also easier to secure them with less chance of them flinging loose due to momentum from mass.

edited 21st Jan '14 10:09:48 PM by TuefelHundenIV

an interesting riff on knife law. I've never understood why balisongs or switchblades were made illegal and this guy pretty much asks the same questions I always have.

Thoughts on the subject?